Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
In this episode I spoke with brand expert Tom Spark, about how we create successful brands as photographers that propel our artwork forward and drive authentic, but popular communication.
Together, we talked a lot about the web of content creation and online representation—how to strike the right notes of enthusiasm, authenticity and clarity, and why your 'divine spark' might just be the one thing that sets you apart from the others.
Other topics of value that we discussed, include:
Listen to this episode for some great tips and tricks when thinking about your brand as a creative - a subject that often gets overlooked but is one of the most important things to nail if you want to be successful in your creative journey.
Find Tom's info here:
Instagram: @tomspark_
Website: https://hoo.be/tomspark
______________________________________
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
Say hello via text message and join in the conversation!
In this episode I spoke with brand expert Tom Spark, about how we create successful brands as photographers that propel our artwork forward and drive authentic, but popular communication.
Together, we talked a lot about the web of content creation and online representation—how to strike the right notes of enthusiasm, authenticity and clarity, and why your 'divine spark' might just be the one thing that sets you apart from the others.
Other topics of value that we discussed, include:
Listen to this episode for some great tips and tricks when thinking about your brand as a creative - a subject that often gets overlooked but is one of the most important things to nail if you want to be successful in your creative journey.
Find Tom's info here:
Instagram: @tomspark_
Website: https://hoo.be/tomspark
______________________________________
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
yoreh.
www.yoreh.co
discount code: moodpdcst.23
My FREE eBook:
www.form.jotform.com/240303428580046
My FREE Lighting Tutorial:
www.mattjacobphotography.com/free-tutorial-sign-up
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG @mattyj_ay | X @mattyj_ay | YouTube @mattyj_ay | TikTok @mattyj_ay
How do we end up at $500,000 a month?
Speaker 1:So you want to go in. So I'm a big believer that all of us have what I call like a divine spark. I'm very particular on who I work with. How do we navigate the content creator space? Help people for free? Let's focus on who you are. Let's focus on unique value. How do you grow as that type of creator on social media in 2024? If the barrier to entry is perfection, no one would ever start. No one would ever do anything. Once you find your thing, just do your thing. How do we go about discovering our brand? It's getting clear on what your why is. If we say should, we are introducing a lot of doubt into our actions.
Speaker 1:How do you approach kind of the subject of mental health with yourself? This turned into therapy. One mental shift that really helped me was Tom Spark. Welcome to the Mood Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. Great to have you. I thought we'd start with just a way of introducing yourself. Tell us what you do and why you do it. Yeah, awesome.
Speaker 1:So what I do? I work with creatives, entrepreneurs, thought leaders, help them to brand themselves online and really kind of like the core of it is helping people communicate online. A lot of kind of things online are sold as, hey, you want your content to look pretty and you want you know all of this to look good, but really what I focus on is how you're communicating and kind of build a relationship with an audience, how to actually go about that. And I feel that that's kind of like the missing piece in the content world at the moment is that there's a lot of focus on hey, look, let's get these flashy subtitles in and it looks like this and how's the color grading All really important. But yeah, the focus that we really kind of dwell upon and work on is the communication there. So that's kind of what I do Basically help people with content communication online. Why do you do it? So you want to go in.
Speaker 1:So I have a big believer. I'm a big believer that all of us have, uh, what I call like a divine spark inside all of us. All of us have something in us that wants to be expressed creatively, a message um, your mess is your message, um, and I'm a big believer that if I can help people do that, then the world becomes a better place, if I can help other people connect with people who need their help, or I can help other people. Artists connect with people to inspire them. Then the world becomes a better place.
Speaker 1:So I'm a big believer in creativity, art forms, music, photography, whatever it is um your business, if it comes from a good place. If it comes from and this is another thing I'm very particular on who I work with. You could call it like purpose-driven people. I'm very interested in working with people who just have that kind of raw, vibrating enthusiasm for whatever their thing is, and, as a creative myself in the past, often we struggle to know what to do with that energy. We just have all of these ideas and we're just like I've got this, I want to do this. So that's where I come in. I'm like, right, well, let's turn that into some sort of structure. I understand where you are, I understand where that enthusiasm is coming from. Let's turn that into something that is actually consumable and digestible for people and is actually going to allow you to make progress in whatever your thing is, and this is specifically in the online space. Yes, in the online space.
Speaker 1:Okay, so tell us a little bit about your background in that. Then how did this all come about? I know you have some music background. Give us a kind of Genesis story. Yeah, okay, so I'll give you the quick story.
Speaker 1:So basically I was a musician when I was a young kid, from the age of 15. I was playing in lots of bands, I was in Cyprus and that was kind of my life. That was my identity. I went back to the UK I'd never really lived in the UK before Went back for university, kind of lost my mind, experimenting with drugs and just doing silly things and really kind of like lost myself. I managed to pull myself out of whatever rut I was in and I actually became a secondary school teacher for about two years. Um, so I did the whole secondary school thing, which is a whole thing in itself. Um, learn a load from that. Um, but basically during the lockdowns I started my first online business and I didn't even realize that I'd started an online business.
Speaker 1:So throughout this time I'd been producing a lot of music. Um, I was always like an audio engineer. Um, I've been yeah, been producing time. I'd been producing a lot of music. I was always like an audio engineer. I've been producing music. I'd started a record label and I started basically on an Instagram, said hey, if you pay me this much a month, I'll give you some private videos of me making beats that you can have access to. Within two months of doing that and in bearing mind this took me about an hour a week I was making pretty much double what I was making from my teacher's salary. Yeah, and that was like a huge coin drop. You know the penny drop moment that I was like like I'm doing something wrong with the teaching.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, apart from helping children, apart from helping the kids and the kids are great, by the way but it's the whole, yeah, the grind, yeah, yeah, it's an whole structure, the grind, yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting space, that um, but yeah. So basically I was like, oh well, that's interesting, I'll keep doing that. Um, I did that for a little bit. I worked with one of the largest education companies in the kind of the music, uh, electronic music space, uh, as head of education there for a while, Um, and yeah, yeah, and just kind of got into this online world of um, you know, helping people through whatever it is patreon or whatever you use um and just kind of explored it and found ways to make it more efficient, found ways, uh, that I didn't like and I did like.
Speaker 1:And a big thing for me as well is and I know we just had this conversation now selling can feel a bit icky and this idea of selling yourself can feel tacky. So I also really felt that initially. So, yeah, I kind of like worked out, like right, how can we kind of work around that? How can we focus on building brands that are more attractive and attract clients, people, to us, rather than kind of going out there and feeling like we have to sell our artwork or whatever it is that thing that's really really precious to us and we really really like love, and then we feel this kind of weird relationship where it's like feels icky to like sell it and put it out. It's kind of how do we solve that problem? So those are the questions that I was asking. And, yeah, and over time, I've worked with some really cool people, cool entrepreneurs, cool artists, and helped them with these sorts of things and through consulting. And yeah, that's kind of where we are now.
Speaker 1:Who have you worked with previously that we'd maybe know about? Yeah, so some, I can't say. There's a great guy called Josh Baker who's one of the big DJ, absolutely killing it. He started an education company in the space, worked closely with him for a while. He's awesome. He's someone who's absolutely nailing the music scene. At the moment I have a big sort of issue with the music scene and the drugs and what it kind of like perpetuates, and he's someone who's walking that line really, really carefully and I think he's a big inspiration for people getting into that space of how you can actually do that in a healthy and sustainable way. So, yeah, he's someone, and then some other kind of like online entrepreneur guys I've been consulting, but in terms of actual names, hush, hush Well, yes, you know, they're the rock stars. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:How do we navigate the content creator space? It, it, it kind of attracts a lot of contention based on a lot of creators not necessarily having the right levels of integrity or the right levels of um respect for the business or for their audience. Is that something you come up against a lot and, if so, how do you coach kind of navigating through that maze? Yeah, so it's an interesting space where anyone can open up their phone and say whatever the hell they like, and we have to develop our bullshit detectors to kind of know if people are who they say they are. So one of the biggest things that I teach there is help people for free. Don't earn people's trust by helping them for free. Like if you have an offer and let's say there's seven stages to your offer, that first two stages give it away for free, say, hey, look, I do not expect you to trust me. I do not expect you to um, you know, I'm this stranger on the internet. This has worked for me. You know, I'm some stranger on the internet. Essentially, this has worked. This is what I've done. Go ahead, try it and like. I will earn your trust by you taking action on the things that I'm suggesting. Um, and if it works for you, then I have your trust, and that's the most valuable asset, um, the we can gather as creators, uh, so, yeah, there's a big thing with the integrity, but I think the way around it is literally just help people, be like all right, cool, there you are. This works. Try it for yourself.
Speaker 1:The homozy philosophy of just give shit away for free to learn that trust and authority in that space authority is a little bit different, and a lot of people look for social proof all the time. Oh, you know who, who have. Hence the question who have you worked with, or how much money have you made, and how are you coaching people to make money when maybe you haven't made that money? And do you do you find you get that a lot in feedback? Or do you you know, being being a guy that's probably not wanting to put himself out, wants to be the guy helping the cogs turn behind the scenes for people and for brands Do you do you find that conflict at all? Yeah, so I think there's a lot of that in the space and there's a lot of kind of like teach money to make money, sort of thing. Um, and I've even had mentors who I've spent a lot of money on, who've kind of suggested that, hey, that you need to make it more of like a kind of a monetary aspect to to to your offers.
Speaker 1:But this is when we get into the question of, rather than being a clone of, like you see, someone who's successful in the space, rather than being a clone of that person, being number two of that person, let's spend the time really focusing on who you are, what your unique value is, and then we have something that's irreplaceable. Then we don't have competition. So, yeah, again, the way to negate that, and it's part of the space. People will always take advantage. People, people will always, you know, embellish things. But, yeah, my kind of real thing there is let's focus on who you are, let's focus on the unique value. And it's difficult, right, because I can't just give you a hey, here's my course now. Copy that and you'll make print money. It's like, oh, actually, we have to spend time working together really figuring out what drives you, really figuring out what motivates you, um, and then building something around that, um.
Speaker 1:So I have this big thing, this idea I've been kind of playing with at the moment, of um sort of where and how. So most of us don't actually know where we want to end up. We don't know where we want to end up. We don't know where we want to end up and we don't put any energy thinking about where we want to end up. Now, in the online space, all of this stuff we're talking about, what most guys do is they sell their how. They say so. I did X, y and Z and this got me here. So you buy their how and guess where you end up. You end up in their, where you end up in their, where you end up in their vision, in their location, and then you get there and you're like, this isn't where I wanted to go, this isn't where I wanted to go at all, and then what you do.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, my whole thing is as a consultant. My job is to say, yes, you have an idea. My job is, okay, yes, right, let's figure that out. How does that work? Um, let's focus on that where, let's focus on that vision, and then let's pick it apart. What actions are we going to take together to get there? Um, and I genuinely believe anything is possible If we, if you have a vision and you are crystal clear on it, I genuinely believe it's possible and it's my job to to make that work and help you make that work, um, and not say, oh well, this is how so-and-so does it and let's try this instead.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, that's something I've been playing around with at the moment is really helping creators, helping entrepreneurs, just get crystal clear on the where, on where they want to end up. What does that feel like? What does that look like for you? Yeah, that's something I've been interested in at the moment how do we end up at $500,000 a month? $500,000 a month? I don't know. I'd like to know Is money important to you? Yes, obviously, but this is something that, from being exposed to guys and working with guys who are earning like way more money than you know, kind of blows my mind as well. How much some guys are earning, um, yeah, half a million a month. Half a million a month.
Speaker 1:Someone I met the other day half a million a month. I was with a friend, um, the other day he won't mind me saying this, um or the other week I was with him. We, we had a conversation together checks his phone. He's like, oh, I've done 28k. Puts his phone back down like I want to be around that, though, I want to be around that. Yeah, he's a guy who's a dropshipper guy, I don't know his name 500 000 a month. Five, yeah, these people a month. These people are here. Six million a year.
Speaker 1:Well, I ask myself that every day. Well, this is the thing, but sooner it's not money, though. I mean money, money. Some people are driven by money, hence the question. And he's 18 as well, by the way. 18, 19, this kid, yeah.
Speaker 1:So you know, at that age, even into my early thirties, I was, I'm not, I was never being driven by money, but I was status driven, I was material driven. I wasn't like I need to do anything to earn loads of money. I was very fortunate that my passion paid well. But going back to my original question, is money important to you Really? What I mean is do you select clients based on you know how successful they might be or their values in in themselves, like you must get a lot of clients for the guy just need I want to be a millionaire, right, that's what that's their where? Yeah, is that, is that something you? I can't help them with that. I can't help them that my. If you want to be the millionaire, okay, then find someone who's like a multimillionaire. I'm not a multimillionaire.
Speaker 1:Where my skill set lies is in the creativity, with the communication, like we said. So that's what we're talking about with integrity, right, because a bunch of guys will be like, yeah, you get on a phone call with someone and they're just like, yeah, I'll help you do that, and then take someone's money and they've never done it before. And they're just like, yeah, I'll help you do that and then take someone's money and they've never done it before. So what, what? What I like to work to. This is a realization that I came to, and lots changed when I came to this realization.
Speaker 1:It's always that thing that comes easy to you, that thing that feels effortless just make sure you're charging for that. Make sure you're charging for that thing that feels completely effortless, because other people look at that and they're like, how the fuck did you do that so easily? No, it's easy, but because we can do it so easily, we devalue it. We're like, oh, everyone else can just do that, that's fine. Yeah sure, I'll do that thing for you, no problem, whereas that was super valuable to someone. So anyone kind of you're getting into, you know, the online space, whatever is find that thing that is just effortless for you, that thing that comes really really easy, and make sure you're charging for that. You know, make sure you're charging for that, and you'll find that things suddenly become a lot more easier and you attract people who can spot that and they're the ones who are fun to work with.
Speaker 1:How do you get yourself out there then? What is your approach to you know, if you, if someone, finds something that they're easy, easy enough for them to do is effortless, and your advice is right Go and charge it. Where do we start? Yeah, so social media is this necessary evil? It's great it's. It's enabled me to live from wherever the fuck I like and do whatever the fuck I like. It's this. It gets a lot of shit, but actually it's just this awesome tool that we all have access to. It's it's just start. It's talk about that thing that interests you, or showcase your photography, whatever your thing is. Get it out there and be consistent with it and get better at your thing. Whatever your thing is, get better. Now here's a big mindset shift for people. If the barrier to entry is perfection, no one would ever start. No one would ever do anything. The barrier to entry is perfection, no one would ever start. No one would ever do anything.
Speaker 1:What you want to be showcasing with a personal brand or an Instagram or a YouTube? What you want to be showcasing with a personal brand or an Instagram or a YouTube, whatever it is, showcase that you are someone who is earnestly growing and developing. That's the key. Showcase that you're aiming to get better. You don't have to be perfect at all, because no one is. Get it out there, get your first few bits of work out there, but showcase the intent to improve, and people pay attention to that Other people, because that's the path that everyone's walked right. Everyone's walked the path of hey, I'm interested in this thing, I can get better at it if I spend more time working at whatever it is, if it's photography, if it's music.
Speaker 1:So when you can showcase your intent to get better at something, people start to pay attention. They start to pay attention. And that's when you gain momentum, and that's when people start to say, oh, I can see that you've started here and you maybe weren't very good, or now I can see how good you've got. I want to know about that process, because people can actually see it. They can see your story, they can see how you've improved. And that's interesting to people, people who may be uh, they, they, they didn't pay too much attention, and now they see, hey, you're over here. They're like right, well, what did you do? How did you get there? Okay, that. But if you just had kind of like dropped in when you were like already there, or you acted like, hey, I'm this big super superstar expert, whatever people like, oh, I'm this big super superstar expert, whatever People are like, oh well, okay, cool, it's not interesting for people, there's no story.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, my biggest thing with personal brand and starting online showcasing your skills, showcasing your talents. Don't expect to be perfect, because you're not Just get it out there, get going, but showcase that you're committed, that you're consistent and that you're interested in getting better, and people respect that. People respect that. That doesn't necessarily bring an audience, though, does it? I mean, let's look at how a lot of people grow on social media these days. First of all, be a cunt. Second of all, like throw money around. Third of all, be naked. Fourth of all, get in a fight. It's basically how you grow. Or you just do a stupid fucking TikTok dance, which is just so vacuous and banal. It's laughable, but people get millions and millions of views for it.
Speaker 1:Like, people introduce themselves to me these days going, or they introduce other people going. Oh yeah, no, he's got so many followers on TikTok. It's like that means absolutely nothing to me. Like, go and tell someone who's interested. But they've, they've, they've grasped a formula that works on social media for the intent of being big on social media, and this is with regards to photography. This is, this is always a contentious issue, it's always a debate. It's like you know, how do you, how do you grow as a photographer or an artist or filmmaker, musician, poet, writer, whatever. How do you grow as that type of creator on social media in 2024?
Speaker 1:So I don't have hundreds of thousands of followers, but what I do have is people who are reaching out to me and literally sending me videos saying, hey, I really want to work with you. How can we make this happen? And I think we need to just kind of re-evaluate hey, if we go viral and we get loads of followers, awesome, but the focus has to be who am I connecting with? How am I trying to serve them? Um, and what am I trying to give to the world through doing this? And hey, it might mean that you have a thousand followers for the first year and that doesn't feel so good, but those thousand followers will be with you for life and there'll be people who will want to support you and there'll be people who buy your products and there'll be people who believe in you and that's more valuable than, yeah, you can wiggle your ass on tiktok and whatever and get the spike of attention, but those people don't even know your name, they don't care about what you think, and I see this so much on TikTok, kind of one of the bits of advice for TikTok is once you find your thing, just do your thing.
Speaker 1:So if you went viral because there was this guy like a year ago, he would always just do this dance to a song where, oh no, he'd run up to someone, he'd pretend to steal something and then he'd like start dancing and he had a big Afro and then he'd like pull his hood down and then the Afro would pop out and people were like, oh, it's an Afro and you're dancing, and they'd kind of be like, oh, I'm glad you didn't steal my thing. Um, that was his thing and he just did it over and over again. I saw some of those videos popping up and he just did it again in a different situation. Cool, he's got millions of followers and I'm sure he's managed to get sponsorship deals and all of this stuff. I don't know what his name is. I don't know what he thinks. He hasn't put any ideas out into the world. It's not going to last. You're not going to be on your deathbed and go oh, look, right.
Speaker 1:But you, conversely, if you do it with authenticity, integrity and you have one percent of his amount of followers, but who are authentic, real loyal. You can look back on your deathbed and go look at the people I helped, look at the people I connected with and gave something to right spot on. But that's the thing is, it's this, it's this giving versus taking. If you focus, like the hand that give us gathers, so like if we can focus on just giving, giving, giving, giving, okay, uh, give to be selfish, selfless to be selfish. Just give, give value to people, share whatever you're thinking about that has helped you overcome a certain challenge or whatever it is, or a bit of information around marketing that really helped you make more money. Share it. Then people trust you and you're giving, giving, giving. And that's when you build a real audience, whereas the other side of things is hey, look at me, look at my cute ass, give me attention, give me, give me, give me, give me, give me, give me. I want something from you. So just flip that and then that's how you kind of build with the authenticity and integrity over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean for those watching. I mean I talk about this all the time, but I want to get something straight. It's okay to be twerking your ass. I mean I like to watch someone twerking their ass, but yeah, if your intent is to be famous and to get a load of following, then it's just not going to be real or everlasting or of any value, right? But if your intent is to just I'm just gonna have a bit of fun today, like you see, a lot of popular.
Speaker 1:I did an experiment a couple of years ago when I just kind of reset my whole instagram philosophy with photography and I set up a dummy account and just was like zero, you know, random, zero followers, zero following, just blank canvas. And I just was like, okay, what's instagram gonna throw at me? You know, as in, if I go into the homepage, what am I going to see, with no information being given to the algorithm. It was, you know, naked chicks. It was morbid car crashes, fights, people getting knocked out. They were like 40% naked chicks, 40% like bad stuff. Right, that's that morbid fascination. I was like, oh yeah, I actually want to watch that. And then the rest of the 10 20 were like mums making dicks of themselves at home right, stay at home mums, like you know, really, really popular videos. But they were doing it.
Speaker 1:The intent behind it was so different, because they're just having fun, yeah, and that's what social media is really a lot of social media should be about, but their then intent wasn't to be okay. How am I going to play the algorithm to get famous? How am I going to play the algorithm to get a load of followers so I could just be a sellout eventually, right? So it all comes back to the intent behind it. And it's the same with artists and photographers. Are you going to change exactly everything about who you are as an artist, in terms of how you create your story, your voice, your style, just to fit this algorithm that can change overnight and you might have followers that aren't really that loyal but are popular, if it kind of makes sense? So yeah, I mean, where do you even kind of decide on what to coach with that type of thing? Do you? Do you offer? Is that part of your business model in terms of social media and how to go about? So this is the thing like.
Speaker 1:What I kind of said at the beginning is, I'm really interested in working with purpose driven people, people who have that spark, that thing that just energizes them. Like I said, they're vibrating with enthusiasm, whatever their thing is. Now look if you twerk and you've got a beautiful bum and you're getting, and that was your goal Brilliant Like I'm I'm not here to say that one's good or bad Um, like that's a great tool that you've leveraged and you've done an amazing job. Like good for you, fantastic, that's what you want, it wanted to do. You've absolutely fucking nailed it like well done. But that's not my clientele. The ass is not gonna make it ass forever, and I haven't done it myself, so why should I teach it? So my, my whole thing is I, uh, yeah, working with people who they're kind of like purpose driven. They've got that. You know, they're a thought leader.
Speaker 1:What does purpose mean to you, then? That's's a great question. So one of my favorite quotes is the glory of God is a human being fully alive. The glory of God is a human being fully alive. And purpose is a tricky one, because I think a lot of people can get hung up with it and they're like once I find my purpose, then everything will fall into place. I need to find my purpose, and we act as if our purpose is something that is outside of us. One day we'll find it over the horizon, I'll find my purpose, and then everything will be okay.
Speaker 1:Whereas purpose is more of a verb. It's more of what we do. We act purposefully moment to moment and then we actually end up creating a life full of purpose. So I do think this idea of purpose can be a bit of like a purpose trap. We kind of like, yeah, we think it's something that it's not, whereas really it's something that we can access right now. We can access it by acting purposefully.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, the reason I said like the glory of God is a human being fully alive is because I believe that all of our purpose, um, the more I kind of walk this path, or just life in general, life hits me with things and I genuinely believe that the purpose of all of our lives is to just soak them up, to live them and really really absorb everything, everything that is um happening to us, and learn from it. Uh, there's, there's a great idea from a guy called Ram Dass that is like life gives you exams. Life gives you exams over and over again and until you've passed it, you're going to keep getting the same exam. And I really believe that, yeah, the glory of God is a human being fully alive and the purpose of all of our lives is to just live it, enjoy it, soak it up, whatever it throws at us the good stuff, the bad stuff, the breakup that broke your heart. That's part of it, that's part of the story that makes it beautiful.
Speaker 1:Now, in kind of turning that back into like, what does that mean in terms of like, hey, making money and doing all this sort of stuff and working with purpose-driven people, I'm a big believer that your mess is your message, and your message often comes through through your artwork, it comes through through your business, it comes through whatever that creative thing that you output comes from that turmoil that you experienced a lot of time. And then you're like hey, I want to say this through my art, or I want to create a business that solves this problem. And that's what I mean by purpose-driven is you take your mess, you take your shit, you take all of that life stuff and you you put it out there, you change it to help people. You turn it into a message, turn it into a business, turn it into artwork. Uh, that's what I'm interested, that's who I'm interested in working with, and a lot of the time those types of people really undervalue themselves.
Speaker 1:So a lot of my work really is, um, it's like inner work with people. I kind of sell it and I like put it out as kind of communication and branding, which is branding, is communication, right, um, but really a lot of it comes down to really helping people with their inner stuff so that they can communicate fully, so that they can communicate properly, so that they don't feel, if you're selling a product, so that if you feel icky about selling the product that comes across, I can see in your face that you're like, oh, and here's my call to action it felt weird to consume that bit of content. Okay, why? Why couldn't you show up properly for that bit of content? Okay, because there's something maybe you don't believe in or because you have a limiting belief around this. So the real work that we do is in the kind of like communication side of things. There is the inner work, so that when you show up to camera, when you show up to how you communicate, you can actually show up with full integrity, and then that's when people listen, that's when people buy into it, um, and that's when you really make a difference. So it it's an interesting thing, um, because it's kind of I sell it as like hey, branding, hey, I'll help you with all of this, but really a lot of the work we do is, hey, I sit with you and really get to know you, and then we kind of tweak these inner things so you can actually show up on camera, whatever it is for the moment, and then make the impact that you're longing, you're desperate to make.
Speaker 1:Yeah, interesting how you kind of bring purpose back to pain and to turmoil. Right, pain is the greatest teacher. What was your pain? Oh, boy, I sorted out a lot of that stuff for myself. Um, self-inflicted, a lot of pain.
Speaker 1:Um, I had a lot of sort of unworthiness issues, um, through girls and breakups. So I kept dating the same person in different bodies. Um, I had, uh, when I was very, very young, I had a breakup that really broke my heart. I was fully in love, fully head over heels, with this girl and then, um, she went off from best mate or a good mate. Uh, we're good friends now and I don't know what the girl's up to, but, okay, it was one of those things it happens.
Speaker 1:But that, what it did to me is it turned me into this person who was like huh, well, because I now feel so unworthy, I'm going to prove to myself and to everyone else that I can get anyone. I can get anyone. I made that my whole thing, that was my whole identity, was I'm going to go out and get girls and look at me, I can do that. Look, even though she, even though she broke my heart, that I can get this other girl here. That's basically what played out over and over and over again, and whenever I would enter a new situation, a new job, a new workplace or, um, like a new community, I'd be like, right, who's the hottest? Subconsciously, who's the hottest girl there? Now, that is my purpose, to get that girl and so that I feel good enough to just.
Speaker 1:But then the relationship would always fail because once I had that I I'd be like, um, oh well, I still feel empty. Was that kind of chasing status for yourself or for others? So, yeah, it was a status play, but I think it really was like an unworthiness thing. It's like, um, yeah, yeah, it was just what I wanted to feel like. I was like look and showcase to others. Yeah, hey, look, I'm not worthless, you know, but through I went through way too many relationships in my early twenties like through that I really learned a lot, and like I learned a lot about myself and how to kind of interact with people.
Speaker 1:What's really going on, understanding feminine masculine dynamics and like understanding, like the psychology of why people do things and, um, how to be honest with people and understanding that in most relationships, like most people aren't honest with each other ever, like they don't ever say exactly what they're feeling and what they mean. So I kept going through these relationships and I would kind of be there in them, acting out these relationships, but also like taking notes and being like what's going on here? Why did I say that that was interesting, like interesting, like uh, so through that, uh, and then I'd kind of read about it like what's going on here and uh, that's kind of that was kind of my pain and that helped me a lot with kind of understanding psychology of things and why people do what they do. Um, and then that really helps with branding, cause if you can understand why people do what they do, then that's when you have influence. You know that's when you can position your product like in a way that's going to solve their problem. So that was a big pain. I'd like add the girlfriend pain over and over. Again, that was a fun one, yeah. So that. That was a big pain for me. I think there's other various other things as well, maybe, things I won't go into so much, but yeah, there's other things all around people, all around people. That kind of uh gave me a bunch of pain to work through.
Speaker 1:Let's dive into the branding bit a little bit again and so give us a high level overview of really what branding is. I feel like it's such an important lesson for me as a photographer, or for other photographers or artists visual artists, especially where branding is is almost like it's, it's so sacred. Because we're in the visual art space, we think branding, oh, it's visual stuff, when it really really isn't. You talk about communication all the time. It's how you present yourselves, how you communicate, the levels of integrity, levels of intent, your honesty, authenticity, all of this kind of stuff wrapped into when we're talking about personal branding as an individual. Give us an overview of, kind of how you philosophize branding and then you know, maybe we can go into some details about 100% Love that question.
Speaker 1:So branding in its essence is a feeling that you transfer across to others. So the whole, for me, the game of branding is how effectively and efficiently can I communicate exactly what it is. I'm trying to communicate through visual something I've had to say. That's branding. And you look at Nike okay, expert, best, one of the best brands in the world just do it. It's a great thing that lives with you and it's um, it's like an earworm that lives with you. But they communicate a feeling, with everything that they do, of like breaking barriers and you can do it. Come on, just do it. That's that's Nike is like that feeling. And so really, with branding, it's understanding for yourself. What is the vibe, what is the feeling, what is the thing that you're trying to communicate? And then, what tools do you have access to or what methods do you have of communicating that? And is that through music that you do it? Is it through photography that you do that? So your brand is the feeling, is the vibe, is whatever you want to call it, that you are shooting off at someone? For me, that's brand.
Speaker 1:How do we go about discovering our brand and how do we go about kind of strategizing it? Then Give us some just throw forward kind of tips and tricks that you know. Take an individual photographer as an example, maybe. Where do we start? You know, we're trying to get something out there we're trying to figure out. Let's say, we want to grow social media, we want to give back some lessons that we've we've learned along the way. How important is it that we start that kind of branding journey and, you know, give us some kind of real specifics about just some basic rules of thumb that we might want to consider in that space?
Speaker 1:So I have this principle called t-shaped personal branding and t-shaped t-shaped personal branding, and I've stolen this from google. Okay, so google from as in you searched, oh yeah, I searched top 10 results. So t-shirt, it's a good one, this. So google like to hire t-shaped people. So t-shaped people are people who have a tall and thin. Tall and thin, yeah, it's like walk around like this, like big chest and a skinny. Um. They like to hire people who have a lot going on along the top. Maybe they're into photography, maybe they're into bowling and all these other different things, and they can communicate with people and they have an interest in this. So they have all of these things that makes them accessible to other people. And then they have that one area. That that's their area of expertise. They're like an expert programmer, whatever people are doing at Google. So they look for T-shaped people. They don't want the person who is just the nerd, like mega nerd only thing. When they're at the office, everyone's like well-rounded, worldly, but not that they're just that Cause if you're just the horizontal plane and you don't have your expertise, exactly, so they look for T-shaped people.
Speaker 1:So, with your brand, I believe that we should be creating T-shaped personal brands. The vertical is our offer. The vertical is the thing that we're kind of saying hey, this is the thing at the moment that I'm here to help you with and this is my really deep expertise. That's my vertical. Then the other stuff is all of the things about you that interest you. So when you're building your brand, when you're a photographer, um, really, just incorporate as much of you as you can into it and as much of you. And like you, like coffee, like okay, like, okay, awesome, like make that big part of your brand. I've literally signed clients because I would. I poured a v60 and like someone was like, oh, you should, if you're here, you should try that. And then we had a conversation. I was like, oh, do you need help with this? And they're like yeah, like so, but it's all of those things that make you relatable and um.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, my thing with kind of like personal branding is just be your fucking self, because that's the only way you don't have to commit, go compete with anyone. It's just all of those things that interest you, whatever they are, however wacky they might seem. Include them. If you're into politics, it's going to feel a bit shit and you're going to get, you're going to piss some people off. Include it, because now you're going to be, you know, yes, you're offering these amazing and you never know what opportunities come up when you do that. If you always follow the path that someone else, you're trying to copy, someone else, well, they did really well and they look like this and or well, this is my photography page, so I won't say that. But who knows what could have happened? Maybe you've got some really left or right leaning beliefs and you like throw some of them in there with your photography and then suddenly someone's seen your work and has picked you up and gone. Hey, actually I really want you to come and do this event, or you never know, but because you didn't include that aspect of yourself, you've never unlocked that opportunity.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, my big thing with kind of branding is just include as much of yourself as you possibly can, uh, share your intrusive thoughts to a degree. To a certain degree, share those thoughts. Get it out there, um, and that's what people latch onto. People don't want this perfect, like amazing thing. They, they want a rough person, um, who they can relate with.
Speaker 1:If you're out here pretending, uh, that you're like this perfect, amazing expert, whatever people are, like fuck you, you're boring. Like showcase, like your quirks, the things that maybe you're over-interested in, that maybe you're too interested in girls or whatever, like it makes you relatable. The rough edges give some. So what's that quote? It's like the rough edges give people something to hang on to. If you're just this smooth, boring person like no one, no one is attached to you. So showcase your rough edges. Get it all out there, um, and that's when people really connect with you. Um, but that's hard. Your rough edges. Get it all out there, um, and that's when people really connect with you. Um, but that's hard. Yeah, well, it is and it isn't it's.
Speaker 1:It's pretty easy to be yourself on the face of it, but to put that person out there into the world, that's a different kind of fish, right, it's? It's takes a level of braveness, I think to to do that. What I'm getting from that, then, is that the core of branding is essentially honesty and authenticity. Yeah, yeah, so I'll be curious to know sort of what specific examples there are and what kind of like the matrix of the photography space is. Obviously, I follow, like yourself, and I follow a few other people who are perhaps you know it's not my space so much, but I'd be interested to know what it is. You see, what things you like, if there's any kind of areas where people all seem to be doing like the same thing or like taking kind of like a similar. Yeah, so what's the space like and what bothers you about it and everything, everything. Well, no, no, I mean, it always comes back to and I sound like a broken record, but it does come back to social media, unfortunately, instagram.
Speaker 1:Instagram was in in our wheelhouse when it first started. It was a photo first platform, it was just photos. Photographers are like oh, finally, like cool, we've got digital photography in it. Now we've got digital photography in social media, I can spread my work to more people, right, rather than printing galleries selling art online, trying to grow an audience just in the analog way.
Speaker 1:Almost right now it's, you know, gone way past that, and so, as photographers who just like to create images, we've had to dilute our kind of we're not dilute, maybe that's the wrong word we've had to adapt in a completely, uh, alien way in terms of now, we've got to, we've just to be seen or heard, or our voice, in terms of our art, be heard, we've got to. You know, play the algorithm, or we've got to have that in mind. Essentially, we've got to at least help ourselves create videos. We've got to help ourselves create 10 photos instead of one, because we want to do a carousel. Then we've got to think about bts, which means when we do projects, we might have to bring someone with us just to get BTS. So we've got video attached to photos.
Speaker 1:It's a whole different ballgame. Not only that, we've got 10X, the competition out there, because everyone's got a smartphone and people have more access to education platforms, which is great, like free YouTube tutorials on like I do them, like it's right. It doesn't give you the full depth of in. Like any industry or any skill, you have to really spend years learning and crafting that skill. But, generally speaking, people have more access to photography, right, they? They've got their phones. They've got cheaper digital cameras, they've got all the education platforms they want, they've got social media to garner inspiration.
Speaker 1:So you see the ubiquity of all of this and the homogenization of photography through just a load of people doing photography, not necessarily being unique, original, but a lot of emulation, a lot of plagiarism, a lot of just the same shit, right? So you know, snobby, pretentious photographers like me want me, want there to be some discernment in the industry, some real like better standards, some better authentication of what we're doing and just general, get back to evolving the art form and moving with the times, rather than just, you know, seeing a load of shit. That's the same. You know you open up Instagram, it's certainly like if me, because I follow a lot of photographers, I the same. You know you open up instagram, it's certainly like if me, because I follow a lot of photographers, I open up instagram, I just see the same shit all the time. It's like fuck me, like where are we doing? Where are we going? So it's very difficult to come back to the original questions, very difficult for individual photographers, especially when they're starting.
Speaker 1:A lot of photographers done well, started. Instagram, let say, which is just a tool, but a tool of marketing called Instagram 10 years ago, right, and so they've grown with that, when it was not necessarily easier to grow, but it was more. There were more opportunities to grow as a photographer. There was less competition, there was less algorithms to kind of battle through. Right, it was post a photo. If you're good, still have to be good. You would grow a following quite nicely, right, it's just just how it worked.
Speaker 1:Now, if you're starting out, or if you're just kind of new into the game photographer, filmmaker, painter, any kind of visual artist, who who needs something like Instagram as part of their toolkit it's very, very difficult. And so you know you have to. You have to experiment a little bit, like what you're talking about, but you have to design a brand. You have to think about your personal branding, like what is my voice? You have a style, right, aesthetic style. That's the style, that's you know what people see. But behind all that, what is your voice? Who are you? What is your story, how much of that story you're going to attach to your visual artwork? So it's you know, and endless questions like that that go on. Where do I, where do you even begin? Right? So I think the branding, I mean that's just Instagram.
Speaker 1:When you start pitching for jobs as well, branding becomes even more important, because now you're pitching for paid jobs, you're pitching for work with brands, clients, tourism boards, whoever it may be, depending on what type of photography you do fashion magazines, newspapers, online articles, whatever it might be right, or just individual clients in a studio. They are going to buy you. They're going to buy, okay, your style and your style of photos, but they're going to buy your brand. They're going to buy how you communicate, how you present yourself, how you present your deliverables. Do you over-deliver, under-deliver? Are you integral? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:What does your social media look like? What does everything else, all of the kind of pillars of your brand, look like? So you know, talking about this, just it is overwhelming split, certainly for new people in the game. Um, so, yeah, that's how I see it, but that's my perception. And, as a 41 year old who was kind of late to the social media game, anyway, as a photographer, um, I kind of have, I have a split opinion about about the whole thing, but that that's where I see the major obstacles for certainly, newer photographers or photographers that have been around for a long time, thinking the 50, 60 year olds that have been doing it for 20 years and now they just feel like they're getting left behind because they just can't adapt quick enough with the 28, 29 year olds who've just been brought up with this. And it's no one's fault, it's just generational, it's just the way we've moved on and the way we've evolved through the digital arena. So, yeah, those are the way I see the issues arising, for you know, and I'm thinking purely just for kind of the both ends of the spectrum, the new people coming through and the people who feel like they've been doing it so well for so long and now I'm not getting any work, kind of thing. I feel like they're getting left behind. So all of which branding plays a major role in. So yeah, that's my view on the whole thing, a little bit of a cynics view, but those are my challenges. That's my view on the whole thing, a little bit of a cynic's view, but those are my challenges. That's my pain, right, that I'm trying to. I don't have the answers. If I had the answers, I'd probably be making half a million a month as well. But those are the.
Speaker 1:In Bali, there are a lot of photographers around. Obviously, it's a very creative place and we talk about this all the time. There are some people, some photographers, who rarely look up from their phone all day right, because they put so much work into the social media side of things, quite rightly, like that's their thing, and other photographers who just don't give a shit. You know, they have a very loyal audience, they sell things to you and they're okay with that. Challenges of both.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean I'm interested to kind of break into that, those branding strategies that can help people navigate those difficulties without an audience. Yeah, I mean, do you talk about that much? Do you think about, I know an audience isn't necessary, but it's helpful. So there's a load there and it's. It's specific for specific people. Everyone's in a unique situation, like you said. Um, some people have a loyal audience who they can sell to. Okay, awesome, some people are just getting started. Um, you know, so there's different. There's so much going on there.
Speaker 1:So, from kind of like listening to you, one of the things that stood out there was what I wanted to talk about was education. So you clearly uh see something in this space where you said, like you open up your, your phone and you see the same thing over and over again and like the, the standard is, you know, not even there. And with your highly you know tuned eye and experience, you're like right, I can see that you know this. Whatever, this isn't kind of up to standard and it's whatever. So a big part of then and you're doing it now through the podcast a big part of that is, you know, sharing that and like, uh, educating people and why they should care about what good photography is. Um, that's what's going to get people in.
Speaker 1:And so this status play again, it's when people, people, your followers, when they're like, well, I know what good photography is, they then have a, they raise their own status. So everything's a status plate, um, nearly every action we take. So, in terms of branding, like that's maybe a move that would be interesting for you. It's like well, I really want to educate others on what makes photography good, because you're so passionate about it. Like, you're so passionate about it.
Speaker 1:Um, and it clearly hurts you when you see things that are just mediocre and are being that. People are ignorant. People are ignorant. They don't know that that's mediocre. You can see it and be like why do you like that? And it's the same with music, like something could be really popular and you're like, why do you like that? Like well, this is a difficulty that comes up in in society these days is I just did a video on a similar subject that when you say, when you it's difficult these days to say something is good or bad if you say one or the other, you'll get criticized because oh no, that's just who they are and they're, um, that's just their expression. It's all subjective and art is very subjective.
Speaker 1:But you know, I still argue, like there is such a thing as good photography and bad photography. There is such a thing as good photography and bad photography. There is such a thing as good music and bad music. When you think about the quality and the structure of whatever it is that and that's okay. Like you know, you can have. I mean, take your example of seeing mediocre photos on Instagram. That's fine, people are learning, people. I was, I consider myself still mediocre, but I was shit at one point when I first started. Everyone's shit right, but you've got to put things out there. You've got to be brave enough to get feedback, and it's another issue with social media is you don't always get constructive feedback. But that's good that people are putting that on.
Speaker 1:It's not the mediocrity I really ever have a problem with, long as they're striving to be better. It's, it's the covering up of that mediocrity. It's like, oh no, you did really well and you know, and we can't, we're not allowed to discern between good and great, or good and bad or mediocre, and you can do a lot better or we should be seeing a lot better, or I always I'm a big believer in standards and you and I feel like, as long as we're always working towards something that's better, we have to be able to define what better means. But these days it's like, oh, you can't say that that's elitist, or you can't say that that's snobby, or you can't say that it's offensive, fuck sake. Well, where are we going in society then? We're just going to become gray, numb and homogenized. You know that's that's my problem.
Speaker 1:It's not necessarily the the quality of work out there, it's, it's the homogeneity of it. It's everything. Some of the look, a lot of 90% of the photos I see on Instagram are fucking amazing. Like I go, this is inspirational, this is great. But there's one, then there's another, and there's another, and there's another, and it might be different things, but they're all the same color grading or the same, you know, somewhere other people have been a million times or it's. If it's a portrait, it's the same style and it's just like okay, well, that is your style, but you know where are we going, where's? So I gravitate towards those artists that are constantly trying new things, constantly, you know, sending out a new message and kind of evolving, right.
Speaker 1:But I just feel like, you know, if you attach a brand to what you do, that means that can mean you kind of box yourself in a little bit. Oh, yeah, right, is that a huge danger? Yeah, so there's this great idea that if you are what you do, then when you don't you're not right. Yeah, so if you are what you do, then when you don't you're not, so it's. That's quite a deep sort of question of, like, right man, it sounds hard, but I would maybe sort of say that is this the nature of the beast? Is this the nature of the beast when, people, when you've been in the game for so long and you have a taste you know, you actually have a taste and you have experience and you have an expertise you are going to get that kind of the mass sort of the, the bulk, it. It is all there and it is whatever you want to say, like not necessarily the quality, but they are just copying trends or whatever it is they're doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a hard one and it really comes back to them in terms of we're trying to link this back to branding. It's getting clear on what your why is. So what is the mission Like, what is the mission for you as a specific photographer and any photographer who's starting, and then focus your brand around that, and you have a unique mission though. So maybe your mission at the moment is more of an educational um mission. Um, and you are speaking specifically to photographers who feel the same kind of, uh, that's great, that's, that's what the mission is. So, in terms of linking it back to branding, it's hard to kind of speak in general terms. We can speak in general terms, but, yeah, getting clear on you as a brand, as a person, your why initially, why, why, why are you doing this? You're where, um, then you can kind of start making decisions from there. Um, what's your brand, what's my brand? My brand is genuinely to.
Speaker 1:I believe that if we're all here sharing our gifts and we know what our gifts are and we know what our gifts are and we can share them, the world becomes a beautiful orchestral musical, and I'm I'm all for it, man. I fully believe so. Uh, maybe you know the prayer of saint francis, um, so that? So the opening line of the prayer of saint francis is make me an instrument of thy peace, make me an instrument of thy peace, make me an instrument of thy peace, and I really believe that everyone is an instrument, like whatever we got going on here.
Speaker 1:This thing, it is an instrument, but most of us don't. We're not playing the right part. We are. Our instrument is a guitar, but we're playing the piano part, and this is what most people do. This is what society does to us. It programs us to behave, to act in a certain way. So my brand really is I want people to know what instrument they are, what their genius is, and then I want them to be unashamedly proud to just make beautiful music and whatever form or expression that takes, and I believe it's my job, like to encourage people. To encourage people and say, hey, that is possible, you can do it, um, and it's gonna. There's this beautiful thing.
Speaker 1:I like to think about that in terms of if we're all instruments, that when we start playing and being that instrument and we start expressing our genius and doing that on a daily basis, we start to act in harmony with everything around us. Everything around us becomes harmonious and supports us as well. Our dreams or our goals, whatever they just all start falling into place and it can sound quite hey out there, that sounds good, man, but I, from experience and from, yeah, my own life, I can definitely say that when you act from that place of unique genius, whatever that is to you, magical things happen. Magical things in the world around you conspires to help you. So really, that's my brand is like that divine spark, whatever that thing, whatever that genius is inside of you. Yes, I want you to go for that and I want you to do it and I want you to be unashamed about it. And, hey, if I can help you in any way communicate that, then that's my job.
Speaker 1:Education is clearly you know, in your history as a secondary school teacher and you've taken it into what you do now. I've always been interested in the word should and I feel like it's. We're all too quick these days to say, oh, you should do that and you should do that? Does that ever kind of? Do you think about that in your vocabulary and how does that kind of go into your teaching mechanisms? Yeah, so interesting.
Speaker 1:Should is an interesting word that we say to ourselves, I guess. So it's like I should have done this, should I Okay? Should I yeah? It's an interesting one, man, because a lot of, if we say should, we are introducing a lot of doubt into our actions. If we're constantly looking back and saying, oh, I should do this or I should have done that or I should, the underlying kind of emotion, there is a feeling of doubt, there's no confidence. So, yeah, it's an interesting one. I do agree that it's not a word that should be. You know, it has its uses, whatever. But yeah, it can introduce a lot of doubt into your life. If you're constantly saying I should have done this or I should do this, you're either saying I'm doubtful or I'm not good enough for what I am currently doing. And yeah, maybe you could have done other things in the past that would have produced different results.
Speaker 1:But there's this nice idea I like to think about that now is new. Now is new. You are under no obligation in this moment, right now, to be defined by your past. You're really not. We will continue to do it. We will continue to allow the momentum of our past to define us, but you're under no obligation to and, yes, there might be things that you've done that are going to give you responsibilities, but in terms of who you actually are in this present moment, that's totally up to you right now, and the shoulds come from our past. I am this person. Therefore, I should act like this. This person thinks X, y and Z about me. Therefore, I should act like this. So the way I like to kind of comprehend or think about what you just said, there is that idea of now is new. You are under no obligation to be the person you were, and that idea of should. That is going to hold you back, because that's just going to bring a bunch of fear and a bunch of doubt into all of your actions in the present moment, and that's not going to produce very.
Speaker 1:You must work with clients, though. Are you? Were you thinking, oh you, you know this guy really needs to, or this guy really should do this is, if that's going through your brain, how do you communicate those messages to your clients? You know what? What's the language that is effective. Yeah, so it's my job to unpack that.
Speaker 1:If I think that, hey, it would be great and beneficial for your brand if the way you were communicating or producing X, y and Z, there's two ways to think about this. So, first of all, if I've said, hey, you need to be doing X, y and Z and they're not doing it, then okay, yeah, they should be doing it. They're not. But in terms of actually how they show up to whatever it is they're doing, to their brand, to their content, how they actually show up, it's my, my job. If I think they should be doing it a certain way, um, it's my job to unpack why they are doing it the way they are at the moment and then work on that. Um, so, for example, uh, one of the examples I give to kind of illustrate this is this is why I say it all comes back to inner work and and it's a really interesting thing, as I've kind of gone down this path is like the branding. It's actually all just, it's the really like, kind of like a spiritual experience for people, um, and for myself as well, because it's getting. The whole job is to get really, if you want to do it the right way, you have to get really clear on who you are and what you stand for, and those are some deep questions. So, um, so yeah. So my whole thing there is if I think, hey, you should be doing X, y and Z is to unpack why you're not doing that.
Speaker 1:And usually, again, it comes from heavier emotions, like fear and doubt. That's why we're not showing up in a certain way, um, for our content in the moment, or how we're communicating, um, and it's to unpack that. And um, maybe there's there's so a belief that some people have is that they don't have many friends. Let's say so. Let's say that, uh, they think that people don't like, and that could be a belief that people have, um, so if you have that belief, you're showing up to a moment in a certain way that is going to, uh, perpetuate that belief. So we need to kind of dig deep and understand why you have that belief and we actually need to work on that, and then if we can change or adjust that belief that's when we can let go of something. Then the way I like to illustrate this is let's say, you've got a problem at the moment and I think you could be showing up much more authentically, whatever it is in your content, but there's something you're holding onto.
Speaker 1:The exercise that I'll do with people is I'll be like look, there's something that's kind of holding you back being fully yourself and really showing up right now. What is it? And they might say that there's kind of like struggling with something, for example, something's happened, someone's treating them a certain way, and what we do is we get them to like really feel it. Like really feel that emotion of everything around that thing that's happened. Why is it pissing them off? And like, go into that. Everything around that thing right now in your life that is pissing you off. Get into it. And you start to see like people do all of this.
Speaker 1:And then the way I illustrate it is that, hey, this is this kind of you that's like got all of this. And then the way I illustrate it is that, hey, this is this kind of you that's like got all of this weird emotion going on. That's what's showing up at the moment. We need to get rid of that. We need to let that go. So this is what I mean when it's working with people, and that's why I like to work with people over a longer period of time, because it's a real inner shift that we're making. It's, it's um, you know. So, yeah, I hope that kind of makes sense. But that's kind of like how I like to illustrate it is that those things you're holding on to, um at the moment, those are showing up in your actions and how you're showing up to the moment and they're going to continue to be there.
Speaker 1:A lot of it sounds like mental health work, right, yeah, and kind of being in the right space to to receive what you're going to receive, and turning up in the shadows when you're on your own as exactly the same way that you would in public and around other people. It's how do you see, as a young guy from the UK where I know you don't live there anymore, but from where both we're from and you see stats like I don't know, just trying to think of some stats, many stats that really illustrate the deep and visceral levels of the mental health situation, certainly in youngsters. Is that part of your business model? I mean, you, do you kind of really focus on helping people, um, you know, get to a level of mental health that's appropriate to even start thinking about and start turning up correctly and, furthermore, how do you approach kind of the subject of mental health with yourself? What kind of practices do you do? Yeah, that's awesome, man, and in terms of being part of the business model is, obviously I help people with these things. It's more part of my general.
Speaker 1:What I want to do, moving forward, is there's been some very interesting mindset shifts and things that I've worked on in myself that have really helped and served me and as part of my brand moving forward. You know I really want to put examples out there, some mental shifts that I've made. Yeah, so one mental shift that really helped me was eliminating complaining about anything, even if it feels like, yeah, this is something you could complain about and you'd be fully justified and no one would mind if you complained about that. No, you're not allowed to. You're not allowed to complain about that, and the reason for that is when we complain, we say that we have no control over reality. So when we complain, we say that we have no control over our current reality and then we become a victim. It's a victim mindset. To complain is to be a victim.
Speaker 1:I was like this when I was in my nine to five oh, this is shit and I've got to drive here, complain, complain, complain, victim victim, victim, poor me, poor me, poor me. No one likes a victim and a victim doesn't ever achieve anything, um. So one of the things that really helped me is like I'm not going to complain about anything. Um, I still do. I'm not perfect by any means Um to myself, I don't outwardly do it, but once you notice that, you notice when other people are complainers and you're like huh, this is uh, so genuinely.
Speaker 1:When I was in my teaching job, I had a key card to one of the music studios um that no one else could have access to. At lunchtimes I would go and eat my lunch in there and sit on that in my own, because I didn't want to be around complainers, because I could feel it. I could feel that energy kind of dragging me down Um, so I would like remove myself from it. So, yeah, big mind shifts, mindset shift that I had that really had a huge impact on my life is stopping complaining Cause when you stop complaining, you say that I am in control of my reality, which means that I can create and do whatever the hell it is Um I want, but as long as you're complaining, you're in a victim mindset and you're saying to the universe, you're saying to everyone around you I have no control. And then people will agree with you yes, you have no control, you're being blown with the wind. So one of the biggest things that you can do is stop complaining. And then, when you stop complaining, you say I have control over my life. And that's a much more empowering belief to have Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And I think it's important there to understand that. Before that comes awareness, you know, be able to be aware of an element of mindfulness, being kind of conscious of the fact when you are complaining or you feel like you know no one can help their thoughts, right, something comes into your head and now it's a matter of how you deal with that. Are you going to express that negativity, push it onto someone else and then get yourself even more frustrated and be that victim, or are you going to like notice that thought and go? Oh, you know how can I spin that around? Because I think it's very difficult to say to people well, don't have negative thoughts, well, I can't help, like something coming into my head, like we are not the creators of our own thoughts, it's, but we are creators of how we act on those thoughts, right?
Speaker 1:So, um, you know, you see this out there all the time. That's one reason why we we don't necessarily enjoy going back to the uk to visit. It's just a fucking nation full of complainers. Yeah, I get, I get it. You've got shit weather and things are expensive. But you know, they just breed and I was the same. I was the same in the UK and I'm still complaining a lot today. I'm much better than I used to be, but I see it as a letting go technique that I don't try not to do in front of others.
Speaker 1:But, um, you know, uh, I, I think it's, I think it's such a powerful tool to to be able to spin that. But before that, you just got to be aware of. It's great that you aware of it so early, you know, and just okay, I'm going to remove myself from from those that are complaining or from removing myself from situations where I might blame the lack of control that I have, when actually you have full control. It's an interesting one, because maybe that's just escapism, maybe it's not good. Here's my kind of thoughts.
Speaker 1:There is that you need to get yourself to a place mentally when you can actually deal with people who are complainers, because otherwise you get kind of soaked up in the cultural meme of the uk. Um, yeah, so there's this idea that, like, the people who trigger you most are like your greatest teachers, like we like to think, hey, we'll come to bali and we'll be around a bunch of positive people and things are all great, like, yeah, they are, but really the work, whatever work I need to do myself right now, it's whoever's triggering me, and if I'm just running away from people who are triggering, triggering me, I'm running away from the work I need to do on myself. Right now. It's whoever's triggering me, and if I'm just running away from people who are triggering me, I'm running away from the work I need to do on myself. That's my exam at the moment that I'm running away from. So yeah, that's an interesting thought there, because I know the UK gets a lot of shit and it is full of complainers. There's some good people there. There are some good people there. People there, there are some good people there.
Speaker 1:Um, but yeah, it'd be interesting, having kind of been away from it myself and saying that, to actually go back and be like, right, can I maintain like my positive mindset and, uh, continue to give off whatever, or is it gonna get me? Um, you know where is your where, where is my where? Yeah, so my where? Um, I really want to consolidate a lot of the stuff that I am reading and I have been exploring mentally into digestible, uh, consumable content in the form of either books or however it looks. Um, yeah, so for me, long term, my where is? I'm really aiming to kind of put a load of knowledge, load of stuff into books for people to consume. Um, that's going to really help them and I really want to just learn, like my favorite thing to do is learn about stuff, to learn about myself, to learn about others. So, yeah, just creating a life and I'm blessed that I'm kind of already on the way there where the more I learn, the more valuable I come. The more valuable I become, the more I can help others, and then the more I can help others, the more resources come to me, and the more resources come to me, the more I can learn and it's fun. So, yeah, continue to do that and however that manifests, that's fine. But really, just keep learning, keep helping people. But, yeah, I think, in big vision, wise, I do see myself kind of a bit more of a recluse in the future and kind of writing a little bit and sharing ideas that way, if that's the way I can best serve, I suppose. But yeah, it's always been in the back of my mind doing something like that Cool man, love it.
Speaker 1:We're going to finish with just a couple of, I guess, more pertinent questions. One is something that comes into my mind a lot, certainly in the digital creator, online space. There's a lot of shit out there, right? What would you say the biggest myths of that online digital arena that we have going on these days? How do you mean myths? A myth as in you know, what do people think is reality? That is not true at all that people who see these digital creators Okay, I think a myth that is perpetuated or a myth is that you're any different, like these people who you see on instagram, who maybe like they're just like you, but they put stuff on instagram.
Speaker 1:So people ask me like oh, how did you start? Like you're a record label, how do you start record level? I just googled it and just did some actions that and now, now, that's part of my identity, apparently outwardly, that's how people perceive me. It's like oh, you started a podcast. How did you do it? I just like googled it and then did it on my phone, yeah, but now like, oh, wow, you're a podcast. So the idea is so I think a myth is that you, it's not for you. It's like, oh well, they're a podcast host. It's like, no, they're just like you, but they just started a podcast and they kept doing it and now you view them as a podcast host. So I think a myth is like that it's not for you. Yeah, just normal people, we're all. It's like meeting your. It's like if you have some heroes and you meet them, you go oh yeah, you're just like a human who's had a talent and has worked really hard on that talent. Good for you. Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 1:We're going to end with a little conversation card tradition, so you know what to do. Just pick one. Hand it to me, face down, don't look at the card. Don't look at the card. I'm sorry about this. Oh, okay, you alright ready? Yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1:Who is the person you would most like to say sorry to, but haven't? Who's the person I'd most like to say sorry to but haven't? And I want you to say sorry to them directly into the camera. Holy fucking shit, this has turned into therapy. It's a great question. I can quite confidently say that someone and he'll attest to this.
Speaker 1:So my brother and I had a somewhat uh challenging relationship at times, um, and I as an older brother definitely didn't um, uh, always I wasn't the older brother I should have been and I said some really unkind things. Um, I think now and I think there's there's been some real honest and frank conversations between us, um, and I've uh, yeah, sort of apologized for a lot of stuff there, but that was a big one for me was, uh, me and my brother um, but we have a great relationship now and he's a fucking awesome human and uh, yeah, good for you man. Yeah, that was a deep one. There you go. It was a good way to end. Love you, matt. Yeah, sorry, my brother, my brother's called matt as well. All right, okay, love you matt. Love you matt. Sorry, matt. Yeah, absolute pleasure to have you on, tom. Thanks so much, man. Thank you, it's been a joy. Yeah, cheers awesome.