The MOOD Podcast
In The MOOD Podcast, Matt Jacob, renowned cultural portrait photographer, dives deep into the world of photography and the visual arts, with guests from all around the creative industry, across all parts of the globe, sharing inspiring stories and experiences that will leave you wanting more. With years of experience and a passion for storytelling, Matt has become a master of capturing lesser-told human stories through his photography, and teams up with other special artists from around the world to showcase insights, experiences and opinions within the diverse and sometimes controversial photography world.
You can watch these podcasts on his Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay.
You can also follow Matt's work on his Instagram @mattyj_ay and his website: https://mattjacobphotography.com.
The MOOD Podcast
Capturing Cultures, Healing Minds: Sebastian Belaustegui, EO75
What does it mean to preserve a culture through photography in a world that is constantly changing?
Sebastián Belaustegui, widely known as 'Suki', is a cultural photographer whose work spans over 3 decades, documenting the stories, traditions, and rituals of indigenous communities across Latin America, Africa, and Asia.
Through his portraits and projects like Guardians of Time, Suki has preserved cultural heritage while fostering empathy and understanding. His personal journey through profound mental health challenges has further shaped his life and work, inspiring resilience and authenticity in his art.
Highlights of my conversation with him:
- Experiences with severe mental health struggles, including anxiety, depression, and recoveries from it.
- The ethics of documenting indigenous communities and how to approach subjects with respect.
- How to use photography to elevate the voices of underrepresented cultures and educate others.
- The balance between raising awareness of indigenous populations and protecting them from overexposure.
- Why the experience of creating a photograph is often more meaningful than the final image.
- Teaching mindfulness, respect, and ethics in photography.
- Building relationships with subjects before taking photographs.
- Advice for photographers on slowing down, observing, and embracing the process over competition.
Find Suki's work on his channels:
Website: www.sebastian-suki-belaustegui.com
Instagram: @photosooky
Thank you to Luminar Neo for sponsoring this episode - get 25% discount on all their products here using the code MOODPODCAST25.
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Welcome to the Mood Podcast, uncovering the art of conversation one frame at a time. I'm your host, matt Jacob, and thank you for joining me in today's conversation. And joining us today is the extraordinary Sebastian Belaustegui, also known as Suki. He's a photographer whose work exemplifies the art of cultural storytelling, and for over 30 years he's traveled through Latin America, africa and Asia, documenting indigenous communities and celebrating their traditions, rituals and everyday lives. His book Guardians of Time and numerous other projects reflect a profound respect for the people and cultures he photographs, creating timeless images that really do transcend borders and generations.
Matt Jacob :In our discussion, we explore Sebastian's journey into photography and his dedication to capturing humanity's diversity. We dive into his immersive process of connecting with indigenous communities, the challenges and responsibilities of photographing cultural traditions and the intersection of art and anthropology. In his work, we also touch on the importance of storytelling in a fast-paced world and the lessons Suki has learned about empathy, patience and cultural preservation. Most importantly, I believe, though, we uncover the struggles he has had over the last four years with some serious mental health issues and how he eventually recovered, a lot of the journey of which has shaped who he is now as a photographer and as a person in this present day. It was a pleasure to see him back on his two feet, as it were, happy and healthy, in the studio, and indeed it was such a fun conversation, so I hope you enjoy it too.
Matt Jacob :Now I bring you Sebastian Belaustegui. Welcome to the Mood Podcast. Thank you so much. Great to finally have you here after I think it's four years since we first spoke over Instagram live. Back then I think it was during COVID. It was definitely within the COVID period, but now you're in Bali. Thanks so much for coming in.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Better situation. It was in the night. I have no internet almost.
Matt Jacob :I knew this was in Mexico, right, so I was in Hong Kong at the time and you were in Mexico.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Yes, I was back home in Mexico.
Matt Jacob :Tell us what's been happening since we last spoke in the last four years. What's brought you here today?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Well, I mean, it's a long story. After we spoke, you know, it was when the pandemic started, so of course my work absolutely was dead. I was running workshops. Then, after the pandemic, I had a health problem after the vaccine. It's another long story. So I'm back on my life again in the last year, working hard again, and all these things that we do with passion.
Matt Jacob :this photography, documentary photography hey, it's me sorry to break your podcast, but I wanted to just say a few words from the sponsor of this episode and stick with me, because it is worth a listen. My friends at Luminar Neo have an awesome editing software that I think every photographer should certainly have at their fingertips. I found this software not so long ago, actually, and if you're like me and always on the lookout for the perfect and most efficient photo editor that is easy to master and delivers great results, then you have to check them out. Luminar Neo is an innovative photo editing software designed for a fast and convenient workflow, recognized with prestigious awards like TIPA and Red Dot Design. Luminar Neo offers an intuitive, user-friendly interface that makes it easy for anyone to enhance photos, just like a pro. It's powered by AI yeah, stay with me and lean into it so you can easily adjust light colors, retouch portraits or enhance landscapes and just so much more with just a few clicks, from layers and masking to advanced local adjustments. It really is packed with powerful tools to bring your vision to life, and, in my opinion, the user interface is so much quicker, user-friendly and efficient than other softwares, and it also has a powerful built-in library of presets that can help you easily add a unique style to any of your photos. It's available for Windows, mac OS or as a plugin for Photoshop and Lightroom.
Matt Jacob :Illumina neo is your go-to for quick, professional quality results across all of your images. So go to the episode description, click on the link and use the code for a whopping 25 discount and pick up your copy of luminar neo today. Trust me, it's definitely going to be worth it. All right, see you later. We're going to get on to all of your photography. There's so much to talk about, but just give us an insight to tell us. Tell us what actually happened. How, how, how did you end up in such a critical health crisis?
Sebastian Belaustegui:and, yes, okay you know, I've been a traveler since I am 17 years old, never stopped, um, so when pandemia came, I I will think that there was like a crisis, but not, it was a beautiful time, uh, being at my home, have a lot of time to work. In my next book that we can talk it's called Africa in the Americas of the heritage of the African culture in the American continent. So I have a lot of time to spend to work. You know, because if we are always traveling, sometimes we don't give us the time to see our work, select our work. That you deserve, you know, to be cleaning all the work. So I have a good time, I have a great time.
Sebastian Belaustegui:But then basically it's a story with the vaccine. Sorry, you can help me how you say tinnitus, tinnitus, yeah, tinnitus. I have tinnitus, that it's like a little ring in your ear 24 hours. So I have it for four years and I can handle it because it was soft. It's like half Before COVID you already had tinnitus. Yes, I have that.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So in the beginning it was a little bit stressful because then you know, you're never going to be totally silent in your life. So you have like crickets, you know. You know like the TV. When you was like all the time neurological or nerve system, something happened that my tinnitus went super high, high level, very annoying. And of course I was very upset because in the beginning I didn't want to take the vaccine so I felt guilty to do it. Then I cannot sleep, I have big insomnia. When you cannot sleep you really go to very dark sides, you know. And then I got very strong anxiety and depression. So I was very, very bad on my health. So sometimes the noise is so strong that I think if I give it to a normal person, that person want to go and kill himself because how you can live with that. But what is amazing and I know it's a long process, I'm going to tell you, but what is amazing is how the brain can get used to whatever need to get used and you can live with that, okay. So of course I don't sleep. So I went to big depression. I went to some, you know, kind of like a clinic hospital to try to help your mental health. But I was very, very bad. So I went through a very strong process getting worse and worse, very, very bad. So I went to a very strong process getting worse and worse.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Um, at some point I thought that maybe if I smoke a thing that's called bufo, that's a dm. Dmt5 is a very strong medicine from the shamans on mexico. It's stronger than ayahuasca, five times more stronger than ayahuasca. So people was you know? People trying to tell you many, many, many things and and I told me, no, if you do that, it's going to help you to restart yourself and of course, people need to be careful about that. Kind of things can be very good if you are in good mental health condition, but if you are not in good sight and you're taking antipsychotic, anxiolytic, antidepressant pills, like I was taking, that can be very dangerous. So I didn't die by a miracle, I think the shaman thought I was dead, but I come back to the life.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And after that I went through a strong process, going to a psychiatric hospital, and then I thought I recovered. But, as I was telling you before, when you start to get better, you want to be back to the person that you think you were. You was, and that's always going to be a mistake, because life is telling you that something totally new is going to come in your life. So finally, after the third time I was in a clinic of, and it was a clinic more for people who have problem with drugs and alcohol. But every people who have any problem with drugs or alcohol is because they have a kind of like a mental health issue, right, because for some reason you want to cover your bad feelings with drugs or drinking alcohol. So that was a fantastic clinic. Basically, it was like a miracle.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Just one day I found a very, you know, powerful time meditation in my house and I remember all the memories that maybe we talk later about, all the times I lived with the shamans in my life, and I have this strong feeling like I'm going to get strong of that. So I totally reinvent myself. I cut my hair, cut my beard, I give away all my clothes and then, of course, I like to share that because there is always a possibility to heal yourself, because it's so powerful when you have the, you know, when you don't surrender, because of course, many people like I was and I have friends that they kill themselves. You know, and this is very, very sad, but I have a daughter, I have a family, I have so many people left, so I will never give up, you know. So one day I just hire a personal trainer, I hire a massage, a healer. I start to play paddle every day. I start to do exercise.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I've been sober for three years. I used to be a big stoner, but no more. I've never had problems with drugs or alcohol, but marijuana also can be something that cover your emotions, you know. So I've been sober, I changed my diet. I go to sleep early, I do three hours exercise every day and now I can say I am better than ever. So I think, and I think it's very important to say that if now someone asks me, suki, what is your more? You know, strong, ever traveler, that you did in your life, because you know I did a lot of like wild things I will say going inside me. You need to be very, very brief. You know, valiente, we say in Spanish, to really go inside, because sometimes, and now in this modern time, we escape to see what's going on inside. That's why meditation is so important, right? So now I have like a big list of good things that can help people to get a better mental health, and once you survive, you want to be also helping people.
Matt Jacob :Yeah, great to have you back and um, tell us how those skills and those those mindset practices have helped you, if anything, be a better photographer. How has your photography changed or been impacted by the, the journey that you went through and coming out the other side of it?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Well, because you know, I will tell you something like when I was taking pictures of my life. I never used nothing to take pictures. You know, if I did smoke, for example, I will get high. I will do pictures that. Then I say like, oh, I thought they were good.
Sebastian Belaustegui:But it's not so good when I am in the computer, right, so I never really used it for that. But what I can say? That now I feel more like sharp, more focused like things from photography than ever. So this last year I work very hard between personal work and workshops around the world and I can see a difference in my photography. It's, I don't know. I think I improve it, I improve it and also, what is very good, every time I finish a work I make sure it's 100%, select the work, I cure my work 100% and before and that's what I'm working right now, I have more than 15, 20 years of traveling around the world that I really never go back to see the world.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So I have a lot of work to do. I started with India, took me two months, so that's already, you know, clean, and now next is going to be Bali because I live here. So I have a lot of work. But yes, at some point I use also my mental health experience on my workshops, you know, because when you give a workshop it's kind of like a therapy. You know People is confronting the ego, insecurities, and what I'm trying to make them feel comfortable is like photography workshop. It's not about competition. It's about how we can all work, create together and learn each other right. So I've been putting also breathing techniques, meditation techniques in my workshop lately.
Matt Jacob :I mean, I'm glad you're talking about this and it's one of the first issues of um, the journey back to a healthy mind is being able to a admit that you have an issue, whatever that might be, whether that's alcoholism, drugs, depression, a situation that you understand needs to somehow be fixed.
Matt Jacob :But even more than that, now, once you kind of have that admission, to be able to talk about it right, to be able to talk about it for your own therapeutic results, but also to inspire others.
Matt Jacob :And it's so great to hear that you've now infused that into workshops, because I don't think, when I talk about mindfulness and having and I just call it mindful photography, but just having having a little bit more awareness and intention behind the craft that you love, ie photography or whatever it might be, a lot of people kind of shy away from that. I think it's a little bit hippie, a little bit, a little bit airy fairy and you know, photography is just photography, right? It's buttons and and and and glass basically. So it's great that now people are starting to understand that everything comes from here, everything in life, whether that's the skill that you want to learn, whether that's relationships, jobs, whatever it might be, if you're not right up here or at least in some good level of health, then you're not going to A achieve what you want to achieve or B make yourself happy or other people happy.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So it was really nice that A, you've come out the other side of it, congratulations.
Matt Jacob :A lot of people don't. So it's really fantastic to have you here in a healthy mindset, but also passing it on, passing it forward, passing your story and your history and the experiences you went through onto other people and what you've learned, because that's all we have at the end of the day. All we have is our mind. Everything stems from that. Thank you for sharing. There are a couple more questions on that. One is you said you hired a couple of seminal moments for you, some light bulb moments for you in those dark times, and you hired a personal trainer. Exercise really helped. You hired a massage therapist, you hired a healer, and I guess my question to you is if people can't do that, it will cost money or accessibility. Accessibility what would you recommend? If people are watching this and they are in a dark place and they want some help, what would you recommend? A couple of things.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Well, because my experience I've been trying to help people. I go to clinics to give talks, not about photography, I give talks about my mental health experience. I go to AA, alcoholic Anonymous and Narcotic Anonymous as well, to give my testimony. You know, like we say, hello, my name is Sebastian, hello Sebastian, everybody. That kind of places it's beautiful. It's beautiful to give your testimony right. So I have opportunity that people contact me because they know I was almost dead and I survived.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So if the person is starting to be on depression or anxiety, it's important to get right away a psychology. Go to the psychology to do therapy, because not many people can talk the problems to the friends or to the relatives. So it's the worst thing you can do is keep, keep, keep, because that soon or later is going to explode. So if it's necessary and I don't say that, that's what I say to the therapist if it's necessary, don't be afraid to go to a psychiatric, don't be afraid to take psychiatric medicine, because it's not forever, it's just for hard moment that can help you to put down depression, down anxiety, and also when you are very bad, I highly recommend to go to a clinic and they know it's not less than four weeks or five, six weeks, because what happens? You lose the sense of the daily life. That's why you don't make the bed, you don't clean your teeth, you don't eat. You are like a dead person, but still alive. That's how you are when you are in a big depression. So what this clinic does is to put it in a routine. You wake up at seven in the morning, you do exercise, you do yoga, you go to group therapy, you have your own therapy, you have horse therapy, dog therapy, but you are 14 hours of activities and that needs to be at least six weeks. So the real work of course, start when you leave the clinic and you keep their routine, because that's the problem. Like I told you, if you are bad and someone come, like thousands of friends told me God, do this, do that, nothing work, nothing work. So you go to a clinic. You have professional people. You need to put on the hands of professional people.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I can do good photography, but some people live and have this passion and this gift to help other people, to have empathy for other people. So put your hand, don't be afraid, don't be with shame. You know, like no, I'm not enough strong. I can do it by myself. Sometimes we need to surrender, give up and know that if we are having this inside, it's a spiritual awakeness and I highly recommend a movie and I feel this in my skin right now. That's one of the stronger ever movie I saw about mental health and I recommend that to you as well. It's called Crazy Wise. It's made by this photographer, phil Borges Crazy Wise, crazy Wise Spell it, yeah, I'm so bad at spelling, but it's crazy like cuckoo and wise, like when you are like.
Matt Jacob :W-A-S-E.
Sebastian Belaustegui:W-I-S-E. Yes, crazy Wise. Okay, you can get that movie in YouTube. Okay, and that movie is made by a documentary photographer, philip Borges, who started to make okay, he's a photographer, but he did this fantastic, fantastic documentary filming about how schizophrenic it's handled in Western society, but also how this kind of like mental health can be a bless on indigenous people, like in siberia. Schizophrenic means that people hear voices, but also that can be like a channel. So there is a healer in in siberia and places that he found that those people are not like just crazy and kind of like push out of society. They're very respected because they can have the sensitivity that we don't have. So that is a great movie. That, I think, is a fantastic. Fantastic because it gives you, like the perspective of how these people could be like a holy people in indigenous society and how they can be like you know, living on the side of the society, using drugs in white russian america.
Matt Jacob :Yeah, interesting I'll watch that yes I think for?
Matt Jacob :for I guess what I'm still trying to get at is, if you know, clinics clinics cost money, right? Yes, psychologists cost money. So if we, you know you talked about exercise earlier meditation and stuff there are a lot of free resources, but it all it always comes down to wanting to do it. It's too easy to sit and feel sorry for yourself I've been there, right. It's too easy to spend the day in bed, right, and not want to get up and go for a 10 minute walk or go for a 20 minute run or go and sit with your thoughts for five minutes, right. It's easy for us to say go to a clinic, if you've got the money, go to so. But there's still something that you know when you are depressed, you don't want to do any of that, you don't care about any of that, right? So it's a really difficult place.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Well, that's a good question and I always thank God that I have these tools to spend a lot of money and cannot work for three years. So for me, of course, was the best money I ever invested in my life. But if you don't have that opportunity and if you really want to get out, there's two things that we recommend. Number one whatever, whatever you need to do, exercise, because when you're an exercise don't mean just go to the gym, means walk, run, something that move the blood and go to your brain and give oxygen, co2 to your, because that's going to bring you life. It's like putting water in a plant that is dying to be dry. Second help. Help. If you go to help people, go to people that is worse than you and that is going to give you the most beautiful energy back to be back in the life.
Matt Jacob :Wonderful, I love it we talked about before we came on air and you mentioned shamans and you know, obviously health and spirituality is a huge part of you as a person, but also what you do in photography. What brought you to, what attracted you to photographing indigenous populations in the first place? And we can rewind to when you had a National Geographic front cover right and we can rewind to the incredible photos and series and projects you've done. But what is it about these subcultures and indigenous populations that sparks your curiosity?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Okay, I need to tell you this, it sparks your curiosity. Okay, I need to tell you this when I run workshops and then I'm going to go to your question, I always start before I talk about the aesthetic. On photography, I give a lecture that's called Ethics in Documentary Human Photography Ethics, right, and of course that has now a lot to do with what I live, that's, you know the patient and be empathy with the people. We can talk about that later. But about the question that you tell me, there is a text that Ansel Adams that I always talk, that Ansel Adams says the books, that the photography that we make is the books that we read, the music like we heard, the things like we like from the live, blah, blah, blah, blah. So when I started to present my work, I always put that phrase from ansel adams, because there is a reason that I dedicate my life to that kind of photography. Right, I will tell you three main subjects. Number one when I was seven years, I lost three brothers that they're being killed by the militaries in the dictatorship times in Argentina, as you know, or many people know, or, if you don't know, it's good to know. On the seventies there was a lot of regimes, dictator times, sponsored by, of course, us, sponsored by, of course, us Latin America, central America, south America and Argentina was the time where the militaries killed any people that they think they were a socialist right. Also, they kill. If you have long hair, if you listen Pink Floyd, you know they were like terrible time and they killed 30,000 people, including three of my brothers. Okay so I was seven years old, I was pretty innocent, I was playing with matchbox, you know like, but of course that have an impact because my brothers, they were like um, socialist people and they live in ghettos and they try to fight for the better world. How old were they at the time? 19, 21, and 24. Okay, so, of course, that's a big thing.
Sebastian Belaustegui:On the same time, when I was 19 years old, I left my school, I went to live, I went to travel with my girlfriend and backpacking in South America and then I met these communities that unfortunately also they call reservations in Argentina and I live with the Mapuches Araucanos and these beautiful people with dark skin. That was like. You know, I don't know nothing because nobody teach me that in my English school, private English school these people with dark skin. They was telling me that they suffer las campañas del desierto.
Sebastian Belaustegui:That is when this guy, roca, who became a hero with the name of Roca, every avenue, schools, you know institution. He was the guy that I learned in the school. He was like the big hero but he was the guy in charge of killing all indigenous people, bringing progress to Argentina so English people can come and have big farms and all that right. So these people still have the memories of that times and they were crying to me. So of course I was like what? Nobody teach me that.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So when I come back from this trip, even my second mother, my other mother, my nanny that she's still alive, then I realize why she have dark skin, why she speak this weird language, because she speak Quechua that is similar to Quechua from the north of Argentina. And then I realized that there is a whole other story outside of the other story that I never learned. So when I started to do photography and I was a passion reader of Carlos Castaneda, who is a guy who lived with shamans and he published like 14 books and have a global impact around the world about the teaching of Don Juan, about this shaman who teach many spiritual things, anyway, when I and I can tell you in another question why I started to do photography. But when I started to do photography I realized that I want to do something that can be useful in the future, not just commercial, not just making money, because I want to give at some point the work that my brother sacrificed their lives.
Matt Jacob :So how can photography in that respect be useful? And is there, more importantly, is there, a responsibility of photographers to drive awareness and potentially drive change in that respect?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Well, my first years as a photographer I did not consider myself a photographer, I was like on a spiritual path traveling around Latin America. Of course, I started in 91 in Mexico. I was a student of another reality, where they teach me human values that still exist, how the people respect the ancestors, the elders, the kids, how they make their clothes, how they make the medicine, how they make the houses, how they can be sustainable. At that time, to be indigenous, it was a shame. They don't like to dress traditional in the city, they don't like to speak because people will have fun of them. And that's changed. Okay, thank God, that's changed and now people are proud of traditional clothes, proud of the knowledge that they have, because now they speak in the United Nations and, of course, with the warming up of the weather, these people are the real guardians who have the knowledge. So when I start to do photography and I start to 91, I spent five months with 400, traveling in mexico and guatemala. Five months with 400, yes, and I did that job and then I did, did Guatemala, and then in 92, I did Ecuador and I live in the Amazon. I live alone with 30 days with the shamans naked. Many, many, many, many stories.
Sebastian Belaustegui:At that time my mother was living in New York, so New York is fantastic. I never studied photography, by the way. We can talk about that later. So I went to New York after six months in Mexico, then four months in Ecuador, and you know, and I have this work in my hands. I have no idea if it was good, if it was why I was doing that. It was because I have this calling that I need to learn from the other side of the story that nobody teach me before, and I was feeling that it's important to preserve this tradition through photography so one day I can do some kind of like education.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So the first four or five years on other trips I did, I never showed my work. I will tell you how come. I only go to schools college, university to give the knowledge that nobody teach me. And I was going to the school not to talk about photography, about social things, about how important these people live, how beautiful they are, how they never let me sleep on the floor. They always give me food, they always treat me like a brother.
Sebastian Belaustegui:You know a lot of things like in this society. We are losing the human values, right? So one day I decided to call some agency of image in New York and I have a meeting with Tony Stone and Tony Stone was at that time a stronger agency to sell pictures around the world. They love my work and they say Suki, we want to represent you in America, in Europe, in Japan. And then I was very happy. I went back home where my mother lived, I put a candle in my altar, I started to play music and I have this feeling like, no, I cannot do that. That's not fair for the people who trust me To now. I'm going to sell them and one day I'm going to see a shaman on a Coca-Cola advertising in.
Matt Jacob :Japan. I will kill my right, yeah, yeah.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So I went back to Tony Stone. I say, no, I only can give you some landscape, some church, whatever don't include portraits of the people, some church, whatever, don't include portraits of the people. Because I feel this work have another work than be commercial and I feel, good, I do that, okay. So do you want to know how I knew I was a good photographer? Because I didn't know. I never studied photography, I was working very by my instincts. So, okay, this is a true story.
Sebastian Belaustegui:At that time I never studied English. Right At that time, I have learned 30 words in English, but I was in New York because my mother was living there. So I was just coming from the jungle, I was just coming from a big trip in Ecuador. But I feel like I need to show this work. So I grabbed the phone at that time. I called Time Magazine. I say hello, I just come from the jungle. You got to see this picture. I was naked with them and they thought I'm crazy Of. They were polite and said no, you need to drop your portfolio every Thursday over, you know. Okay, time magazine. Hello, I just come from the jungle. Everybody was telling me the same thing you need to drop your portfolio blah, blah, blah.
Sebastian Belaustegui:One day after I called Magnum, I called ICP International Center of Photography and I called I just come from the jungle, right, blah, blah, blah. And the lady's like wait one moment. Then, hello, another person. Yes, how I can help you. I say the same thing. He said one moment I'm gonna give you with another person. Hello, this voice sound like an old person, right, sebastian? Where are you? And I tell I am in Upper East New York. Oh, what about if you come tomorrow? We are in West and I'm happy to see your work. So I put my portfolios back.
Sebastian Belaustegui:My brother, who he's a great artist and he's a photographer, helped me to put very professional my. You know I was shooting slides at that time. So you have these, like, what year was this? 92, 93, 93. And I have this portfolio that you make on this black like a cardboard, like a yes Cardboard, yes cardboard, and you put the slides and then you put it on the light box and it look professional. Of course I did it very nice. My brother is very good on that. He helped me a lot.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So I go to ICP I don't even remember who won and I sit with this man, and this man was Colonel Capa, the brother of Robert Capa, who also was the director of ICP, who created Magnum Agency. Right, yeah, huge. And he spent at least two hours watching my work and he told me you know, Suki, this is a fantastic work. I mean, tell you, I don't know about photography much, I never studied. So my point with this, he made me understand that that work have a artistic quality beside what I was looking for. That is like the message that you can give.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And I learned also that before I publish this book, I need to grow up inside myself to that work be presented like should be for the respect of the people who trust me. Right? And he told me this is one of the best work I see about indigenous people in Latin America and we're going to call. And he, in front of me, called all the magazine that I called, all, all, all, including Magnum, and he made me seven incredible appointments in 20 minutes. So I have the opportunity to go to all these guys and I was not looking money successful, I was just learning from the feedbacks of them and after that I keep working with another. You know confidence because I know I was doing something like it can be. You know, I don't know how like it can work in a better way if I keep working. It's not like, okay, I'm gonna stay in New York, I'm gonna try to be a New Yorker photographer. No, that gave me inspiration to keep working so fast forward to 2005, when you had National Geographic front cover.
Matt Jacob :How? How did that come about?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Tell us about the image. Well, that came because when 2004 I published my first book, guardian of the Time, we were looking for sponsors and we approached National Geographic. But National Geographic just published a similar work I mean about indigenous, I mean from this amazing photographer from Ecuador. I forgot the name. So, but they like my work a lot and they like a lot the story of the cogees. What is a community in Colombia, one of the stronger, more pure indigenous people in the planet, and they have an important message, called, anyway, an important video documentary by the BBC about the warning of the change of the environmental. My point is like they like that story and when they met me two months ago, mucho months after they met me, they moved everything to publish that I was very happy to publish an article about the cogees and then I keep in contact with them. Once in a while they will buy me some articles. And then in Latin America they have a Mexico one office that represents Latin America.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So one day when I started to do my second book to be published, africa in the Americas, I did this trip in Trinidad and Tobago, this carnival crazy, and it really felt I have a very strong article. So I say, wow, let's propose Washington DC to have a cover, a 20-page article. And he was Suki. Wow, we cannot do that. Come on, it's okay if they let us make an article of four or five pages. We have the know, we have the. No, let's work it out, let's try to be you know. And then we propose them to Washington DC and, yes, they come back with the approval to have the cover and we do a 20-page portfolio and it's called the Colors of Freedom, called the color, the colors of freedom. They are, and it's the cover is the picture of this amazing lady, all dressed up from Trinidad and Tobago. And that's the part of a long project work I have about how all these culture transformed from Africa to to America.
Matt Jacob :That was a big project, wasn't it?
Sebastian Belaustegui:In multiple countries you travel 16 countries and different trips in the same countries. But when I was publishing the book, I moved to Bali. Then I started to get in love with Asian cultures, because that's another story to talk. How related are indigenous people from Asia to the one from Latin America? Instead of, you know, fisonomy, instead of also on everything, the music, how, the weaving, everything right. So I put a pause in Africa and America. But you know, the good thing of documentary photography is the other side of fashion. Fashion go away like this. When you do documentary, it's preserved and actually get more value with time. Yeah, timeless. So, yes, I need to publish that book, I know, and when I do it, I know it's going to be the right time with the right people.
Matt Jacob :Yeah, let's dig down a little bit into these cultures and preserving the not only the dignity, but helping preserve and protect these indigenous populations, if indeed that's what they want, right? I'm really interested in this kind of topic. As the world becomes more globalized, it becomes photography industry becomes more saturated. Everyone's got a camera in their hand. People are traveling everywhere. It's easier than ever to travel the world, which means a lot of these indigenous populations are becoming more exposed, right? So, on one hand, photography can serve a purpose to document but also help preserve these types of cultures. But on the other hand, there's a huge danger in if driving the awareness of these cultures, more people will go the cultures themselves and the populations will become more westernized in themselves. Because they meet more western people, they maybe get more money and it just it's snowballs, right? Tell? Tell me your thoughts on that. Today, in 2024, as you know, as the world moves faster than ever, how do you go about preserving, or at least having the priority in yourself as an artist, to try and protect these populations?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Well, that's a very good question, a very complex thing. Very complex because you can see that in many, many different ways I started to do Indigenous people in 91. It was another war. Of course there was not the internet, the world Of course there was not the internet, there was not this brightness that the indigenous people feel right now. That's very important. Listen, when I started to do that, I really thought at 91, 92, 93, I thought that now those cultures will disappear because how fast things change. But guess what? They're better than before. They're better than before because people now sorry, the indigenous people, like I said before, now they have space to present, you know the knowledge and you know they have giving talks and speech around the world, united Nations. So now on, that is a good thing.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I do photography to preserve Rias. I do that to preserve, you know, because there is many, many places that, yes, I did that now have been changed forever. No people, of course not all, preserve the culture. So I think photography for me and it is, it's always a fantastic bridge, you know, to give them like a platform. That was my idea. So that's why, when I started to publish my work, I tried to do it with something like really right, with knowledge about them. You know, um, for me, was more and is more about the human values, always, how amazing these people have these concepts about life. You know, know about sharing about, and that's, for me, is the big big thing.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And that's why, as a photographer running workshops, you need to understand when I start to do this work, I only travel alone why? Why? Because if I am with another Western, I feel like they can see me, like I am protected. At some point with another one, when they see you alone, they just want to help you. Because why are these guys alone? So I, every day, in 10 years, someone adopt me Every day. Never happened that I need to sleep under a tree with my stomach empty, never, right.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And then things change. I travel with my ex-wife. I travel with my ex-wife and my daughter. That brings another contact with the feminine side. If you have a kid, forget it. If you have a kid, you are like more, like more, more, more than welcome with them, right, so, and that's why now bringing people to these sensitive places. That's why I give this talk about the ethics, because it's very sad and I'm trying to pretend to don't be judging when I was traveling and you see a bus coming from whatever I don't be judging when I was traveling and you see a bus coming from whatever, I don't want to put a nation but people, china or French people, right, whatever. And they come, these white privileged people, with this big lens and they act like they are in a zoo. But they're not in a zoo.
Matt Jacob :They're shooting indigenous people in the market, with any respect, and I will feel so, so, so, sad about that you know, but this is sorry to interrupt, but this is, this is really what my question is geared towards, because how can how? I battle with this dilemma all the time? Because I want to go and photograph similar you know similar people that you do right. But I'd battle with the ethics of it, because how does photographing these populations help to preserve them? All it does is grow the awareness that they are there and drive potentially more people to them. I mean, look at Bali. What a perfect example.
Matt Jacob :Right 20 years ago, bali was a very, very difficult place. The argument can be that it's brought more wealth to the local people here, which is a fact and it's true, but on the other hand, it's lost a lot of its cultural beauty and indigenous beauty that was present in the island and its spirituality, which is arguably still here, but it's definitely been diluted. Still here, but it's definitely been diluted. So there's this constant, constant battle. And then you've just touched upon it there when you see bus loads of people coming with their 100, 400 mil lens.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I try to do my part. My part is like every time I have people taking a workshop, I know they're going to be much more careful, much more awareness of approaching to the people and never take a picture of a person without making contact before. That's my goal I try to give to my students. They do it or don't they do it. It's under karma. But I say don't just point the camera in front of a guy. That's why I don't like street photography. Ok, I have so much respect for street photographers but it's pretty violent. But if you use street photography in New York, in the city, in a big, big crowd place, I understand it's not the same that go to like a local indigenous market and be pointing the camera on the people. So I saw the running workshop, for example, in Oaxaca, day of the Dead, in the cemetery where people stayed all night long with these incredible graves full of flowers, candles, incense, all night with their relatives that pass away on ground earth graves. And I say to my student cannot bring flash, of course, cannot bring tripod, of course. And then, without judgment, but there's other photographer that brings students and I see people with flash, I see people with tripod and they should not do that, because it's not about the photo, it's about the experience. Once you learn that, your photography is going to improve because you're going to improve inside. And that's why we're talking about ethics, because you need to understand the experience is much more important because the experience stays in your heart. Drive your heart as a hard drive forever. Photography, I mean yeah, you can publish, you can make exhibition, but when you relax about that and you enjoy the experience, the good picture is going to come. Because the other side is anxiety is the pressure is like your ego working there, and spiritual and ego don't work together right. So I try to do my part. I'm trying to through my work and that's why I run a workshop, because I never studied photography but I ran a workshop for 15 years. I have more than 100,000 students because I think what they like is just my experience.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I talk about my experience. You know I never study in Brooks, I never studied in ICP Barson School, but I give lectures there, right. But because I work and I that's when I was in school. I had three. There were three things to be in the school I am dyslexic, I have a deficit of attention and I that's when I was in school, I had three. There were three things to be in the school I am dyslexic, I have a deficit of attention and I am hyper activist, you know, yeah, so I suffer every day for 13 years, but thank God, I found this way to channel my energy through photography. I'm very disciplined as well. I'm a Capricorn. You know that we are very obsessive, you know. And then, yes, I work on that. So, once again, yes, you open Facebook sorry, instagram and then you see all these people with Ethiopian picture with the flowers in it. I cannot see that. I want to go to ethiopia, but I don't want to you sound like me.
Matt Jacob :I mean so many things you've just said. Uh, me talking all the time exactly the same way. First of all, you know, if you look at people ask me about this, this photo on the wall I can't see it at the moment, but this photo on the wall, which is one of my favorites, not because of the technical aspect of it or the aesthetic aspect, I remember, I can tell that story and my experience with the girl like it was yesterday. It was very meaningful to me, so much so that it's tattooed on my arm. The experience outweighs the photograph a hundred times. And as soon as you understand that you're perfectly right, your photography, will you release something. You're more creative, you're more flowing, you're more relaxed about it and you're more inspired. Because you know that if you focus on the cliche but you focus on the process, you focus on the experience, enjoying that experience, creating those memories, the photos will come Definitely, absolutely.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Absolutely. I mean documentary photography, I mean talking about indigenous people is a very privileged thing to do, because I've been doing this 34 years and I'm still like a child. I just come from Sumatra three days ago, brother, and that's why I like to work with his friend, david Medehoff, who has a base here. He's a fantastic guy to travel in Indonesia with him. He says Zuki, you're like a child. I said, yes, I became a child.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I like to talk with the people, like to laugh with the people. I became a clown with the people. You know like, because this is how pure the people is. You know like. I don't go there like a photographer boring, you know. No, no, I'm just go to learn every day. They have a lot to teach us, you know.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So, once again, like you say, I say to the people when they ask me oh, or my students, hey, what happened? How I do that? I say listen, guy, walk, walk. Keep your cameras inside and walk, observe, see the light, see the. I was working. I will come to a community for 10 days.
Sebastian Belaustegui:The first three days I don't take my camera with me. I don't take my camera, leave it in the whatever I was sleeping, because first I want to understand a little bit and make contact with the people, and then, in the day four, I will walk with my camera, I will go with the people that I already met, I will build a relation and that's. You can feel it in there. It's not about technical. You can be an amazing technical person, but if you don't contact with the, there's something in the expression. You need to make a contact with the person.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And then what happens? If you stay two hours talking about many, many things, and then it's the moment hey, may I make your portrait? No, don't be upset. Get the beautiful experience that that man have so many to, because there is a history in every life. It's a fantastic story. You know, and sometimes you meet these men, these people, that they feel very happy to talk with you. Because I like old men, right, I like all kind of people, right, but I have a big passion for elders, right, because I don't know my heart just Well.
Matt Jacob :they have so much wisdom and probably so many stories to tell themselves.
Sebastian Belaustegui:But you know how indigenous people treat elders is very different and much more healthy than modern society that they put them, you know, aside.
Sebastian Belaustegui:But even there are people who spend a lot of time alone. So when you ask them, in a respectful way, to make a portrait, they feel proud, they feel like, oh, this guy is putting interest on me and that's why, when I do a portrait, I always and that's a tip that I always give to anyone, to my students when you're going to select your work, you are at home. You're going to select your work, you are at home. Finally, you have your whatever, your juice, or, if you can drink beer, your beer. And you're going to always start for the last ones, not for the first ones, because always the best ones are the last ones. So why are you going to start with the first one? So better start with the last one and then, through you go to the first one garbage, because you build a contact, you build you know understanding the place and the standing, you know things that you saw better in the house.
Sebastian Belaustegui:But this is about how the art of portrait. I'm a portrait photographers, as you know. This is my big, big passion, you know, and I, I, I like other kind of photography. I did all kind of photography but and I love street photography as um a artistic skills and how all the elements, blah, blah blah. But I just love to contact with people. You know that's my big passion. Yeah, when it comes to storytelling with people, you know that's my big passion.
Matt Jacob :Yeah, when it comes to storytelling with people and you talked about a little bit of your process there when you travel you don't pick up your camera for the first few days. That also helps. I mean, I'll do the same thing and it also helps with the other the people on the other side of your lens becoming a little bit more comfortable with you, which is hugely important when you're asking them to look into the camera on day four or day five, right, so it's as much as you being comfortable and making contact and connections with them, but it's also them making connections, contact with you and eventually hopefully breaking that ice, getting to know each other and hopefully getting a nicer shot because of it, because they're more relaxed, they're more engaged with you, they're more interested, they're more proud, etc. Tell me about other elements of storytelling. If you're doing a workshop or if you're teaching others or if you're on location yourself, what are you thinking about when it comes to the story as a whole, but also the story of an individual photo?
Sebastian Belaustegui:a whole, but also the story of an individual photo. Well, I think it depends. I mean, it depends when I run a workshop or as a person at work, either Well, how do you teach?
Matt Jacob :I guess in terms of the workshop. How would you teach storytelling? What type of advice would you give others in terms of the workshop? How would you teach storytelling? What type of advice would you give others in terms of?
Sebastian Belaustegui:I think what I teach on photography and it's an ongoing process work is educating the eyes, is educating the art of observing. That's what I teach and I teach. I try to teach all this about ethics when you work with people, so then they can use it for future work. Storytelling is another story. For example, I was thinking I'm talking yesterday with David Metcalf about that Like, for example, maybe one day to make a different workshop where you go to Paranasi and you have six fixtures, six students and every student can choose a story to work for seven days. That would be amazing. Yeah, that would be amazing, but that's Expensive but amazing. Yes, but this is people who already need to know something about photography and then they can work with this story of the guy who cleans shoes on the street and how they live and blah, blah, blah. That's yes, yes, that, but I don't do that. I go for whatever in mexico and you know where all this place around workshop and we travel through the places, communities and kind of like. What I engage them is how to contact with the people, how to from the hello until the final masterpiece shot, how is the process. That's what I teach and they can use them after and educating the eyes when you go to the house, understanding where is the best place. Sometimes the place that you think is the best is the worst and the worst is the best because it's super low light and the texture of the walls. That's what I teach them, right. So I work with beginners to professionals, right, and people are like how are you going to do that? Sometimes I have a client that comes and I complain what are you gonna do that? Sometime I have a client that come like complain, what are you accepting? I'm a photographer? Well, how you can accept someone that never. You will be surprised why it's not a commercial thing I'm doing. You will be surprised because we all see different and I say something like was a guy called Suzuki, not me, another guy, suzuki, that said that sometimes, knowledge, if you have too much technical knowledge, it can be a problem Because you think too much in the technical way taking the picture and then when you are with empty, you know so much information like a nerd. You can be more creative because it's imagination.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So this time, for example, this woman fantastic, I love her, teresa. She come. Oh, this is my camera in a box. I will pay you more Please, from the first day. Okay with her For the first day. Okay with her for the first day. She take picture. She take picture. She was using manual. But she took a 10 days workshop with me. The first two I don't let her use the camera. She was like, be with me and you tell me where you see good light and we gonna. You gonna take picture without the camera first, and every time you see something good, tell me if it brings your attention and it will tell you if you are. And I was so surprised. Hey, look how the light come from the da, da, da, da da. Okay, you're ready. And in the last day, when she present the work, everybody was wow, because she worked from the emptiness, talking about mindfulness. And yes, the guy, this guy, he was good. Right, he was good. But that don't mean you know, you will be surprised.
Sebastian Belaustegui:It's the art of observing photography have nothing to do technically. It's important, of course, but it's a little part of that, you know, it's a little part of that. So in the workshops, it's about experience, it's about having fun, it's about respecting each other and, of course, the bigger skills they learn is when we review the work of everybody in front of everybody. No one likes that. And this is about seven. Good, maybe seven, maybe two, maybe one, maybe four, sorry, the, the, the, the, the work from the first selection, second selection, third selection, and then this is your best three picture, and why those three pictures are the best. And that's how they learn. And I learned a lot running workshops. That's what I like to run workshops. They're my masters. I learned so much from my students and I think my photography improves so much running workshops because you are putting not only your attention, their attentions.
Matt Jacob :Um, it's a fantastic teamwork to do With the younger generation or beginner photographers these days. In your experience, having given workshops to so many beginners and just meeting people wanting to get into photography, where do you feel the biggest challenges for them? Because we talk about being a little bit more mindful, be a bit more intentional, maybe a bit more slow with how you see things before you even pick up a camera. But on the other side there seems to be in the photography industry a lot of pressure to earn money, take commercial jobs, one after another, bang, bang, bang, bang bang. Social media pressures, exposure pressures. Where do I show my work? More competition than ever. Do you see those issues in your experience with beginners and, if so, how do you kind of consult them to get through those difficulties?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Oh that's a tough question because I think I was very lucky to still belong to a generation that can live as a photographer. I live as a photographer all my life, since I am 19 years old. I belong to that generation that I worked for 10 years for editorials magazine. They sent me all around the world. They paid me to travel, they gave me good money to spend when I was traveling. That's, it's over right. Pay me to travel, they give me good money to spend when I was traveling it's over right.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I really will be worried. I don't want to put that into the new generation. But come on, ai. Sorry, I'm dyslexic, you see AI? Oh my God, scary, right, advertising, who's going to spend so much money Like I do? Advertising, but not all. Can I refuse work that like for company, like tobacco company, alcohol company? I did some because they pay well, but right now I mean even one student told me the other day in one photography that we were discussing blah, blah, blah. But now you can, ai, you can put the whatever. No, I like to work pure. You know I don't retouch my picture. I belong to the generation of slight old school. So, yes, of course we shoot in RAW, of course we need to do a little adjust. But I don't know nothing about Photoshop. I know four things how to open, how to put contrast clarity. That's it right. So, yeah, oh my God, I mean, we need to see what is happening with these new digital nomads.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I met this girl, sophia, the other day from Argentina, 22 years old and now she's 25. Oh my God, she's been traveling 50 countries and I think, once again, talking about how we can survive in this world as a mental health or as a worker, we need to reinvent ourselves. I mean, thank God I run a workshop. I will be asking money in the street, with all my respect, because photography, as a photographer, it reduced maybe 5%, you know. I mean, yes, still, wedding photographer, still, you know, commercial photographer, of course, but it's much more hard because what we were talking about, because the competition, but there is always, you know, a way to make it happen. This like nomad digital traveling, making contests, and at least, I was so proud of her. I talked with her, I gave her some advice and it's great work she does. She's educating people about cultures, about traditions, and she found a way to, of course, people pay the hotel and you know, once you have a lot of followers. You need to have a lot of followers, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So I, yes, I will recommend to follow your heart. Always. Don't be afraid, because we cannot be. You know, be afraid means we freeze, and we freeze, we don't go ahead. So there's always a way to follow your heart and not just get what happened a lot in the commercial thing you know, and do such a commercial thing just to put your dreams up.
Sebastian Belaustegui:You know, I think people ask me many, many times. Of course, I told you I spent my first trip five months with $400 and now maybe you spend that in four days, because whatever budgets are different, but you still can travel very cheap. You still can, you know, find the ways to follow amazing stories to be told. You know I have so much respect for war photographer, for example. Oh, wow, my bigger respect.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Because I cannot do that. Because you know, after the story of my family, I cannot do that Right. That's why, instead, to see, because you know, after the story of my family, I cannot do that right. That's why, instead of to see, to document the most horrible things happening in the world, my life, take me to document the most beautiful things still going on on earth, and that's all the countryside. People from everywhere, anywhere you know. People from everywhere, anywhere you know. So, young generation, keep your dreams, follow your heart, follow your dreams, you know you will find it. You need to work, as I always say to my students, the only I mean I got where I got and whatever books I got where I got and whatever books on National Geographic. After all, that not because me, yes, because me, but because my work. My work took me to all these places. My work told me to be a guy who starts to run photography workshops, right, but I work hard. You know you need to work hard, always, always, and things are going to happen, right.
Matt Jacob :But if I work hard, you know you need to work hard, always, always, and things is going to happen, right. Yeah, so many things from that I want to unpack. One is when we talk about people following their heart and doing whatever they can to get by and we talked about digital nomads is a great example, and being in Bali, there's, there's many of them here or influencers, or content creators, whatever we want to, whatever they want to call themselves. Where does the need to grow a following and an audience to pay the bills and the responsibility as a photographer or content creator lie? Because there's a very fine line between well, I'm doing this for myself, because I want to do it, I want to travel the world and I want to get paid for it.
Matt Jacob :There's a fine line between that and having influence, essentially Having a big enough audience where you can actually impact change, or you can impact people's opinions or you can drive awareness, and there seems to be a difficult place for those types of photographers where they don't know where that begins. Let's say, they get to 100,000 followers on Instagram, right, they? Now, whether you agree with me or not, I guess I'm going to ask you, but do they then? Is there some point. They have a responsibility to be more responsible with what they put out there and, rather than go to some of these fantastic places in Bali, get a quick shot under a waterfall and move on to the next thing.
Sebastian Belaustegui:You know, it's this kind of take mentality crossed with potentially giving back, is well my point to try to don't affect those kind of things of but I mean, I'm not so popular in Instagram. I mean I'm talking about whatever. 30,000 is not compared with people now having millions, right. But I recommend, for example, if I do a shooting in this grave in Oaxaca, I put Oaxaca, I don't put the name of the town, and that's what I recommend. Don't put that. We were talking about this photographer.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I want I don't want to put the name who worked with the mental, why. You know the mental, why, in sumatra on the third on the 90s. I love the work. I got the book and I was dreaming going there for 30 years until I did it in 2019, and that guy, without a bad intention, in the book, put the name of the shamans, put the name of the places and then, of course, many filmmakers, many photographers. When they want to do the mental way and probably I will do that if I did it a long time ago they were searching for these people.
Sebastian Belaustegui:These people what happened Are innocent, are like childs. The ego starts to raise because they feel important, because many people are coming from around the world. And what happened with the other people? Jealousy starts to happen and then they want to kill each other because this guy having more power than the other guy, and that's how fragile can be those kind of things.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So in my books I never put the name of the place. I put maybe, for example, the Huichol tribe, the shamanic peyote tribe, mexico, that's it. I will never put the name of the person, the name of the community and the sub name of the little town you know, because you want to avoid to and these people, of course that you said, yes, of course this is instagram thing. They post a picture. Then now there is like the, the, the instagram picture. Of course, a million people go to the same spot, but that's what happened when you so, yes, if you're gonna go to the same spot, but that's what's happened when you so, yes, if you're going to go to this amazing place, whatever we can say. Many examples Papua, I will put Papua tribe or whatever the name of the tribe and the name of the you know. So I think that can help to avoid to bring people more people yeah, what is your purpose with photography?
Matt Jacob :Preserve.
Sebastian Belaustegui:In my purpose I will put one word is preserve. You know the people preserve National Park and I think, through doing with the dignity, a portrait of someone that still keep the language, the knowledge. You know how I did my first book Following the way they dress. That's how I was like every time I saw this incredible, no custom, no Traditional clothes that they do, they dress every day. So that's how I was traveling. Following, I went to the Museum of Anthropology in Mexico and I write down, like you, every name of the place that I love and that's going to be the place I'm going to go. That's how I started in 91, on those times, right, following the way the dress. And for me it's to preserve. That means.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Next step is to educate. You know I like to give talks, I like to give conferences, I like to talk about all these human values and ancestral knowledge that they have and how they connect with the world of the spirit, the shamans, the healers. I saw incredible things that your mind will never understand because, as we know, we only work with a little three, 4% of our power, of our brain. And these people, because there is pure, because they don't distract themselves with so much thing, like we do more in these times. These people have another kind Telepathic. Telepathic is a true thing, but because it's intuition, because it's nature, it's the power of nature, and that's how I recover, because the power of nature is always changing. Nothing is going to get stuck, nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing Only gets stuck is our thought when we're trying to keep the things one way, but it's not going to work because everything changed right. So art change, photography change.
Sebastian Belaustegui:When I turn to digital, I have a big crisis. If I would, if I would have another talent, I would maybe stop to do photography, because I feel horrible when I digital start, because I was so good on slides, transparency, shooting in the right position, then saw it in the magic light box, and then what? And people come to my exhibition oh, you're amazing on Photoshop, what? No, no, no, no, no, I don't do Photoshop. I mean, yeah, you know what I mean. Like, this is old school, you know so. But then one day I need to accept that digital also have good skills. Of course, more people take pictures, of course, also more people can take my workshops. What do you shoot on now? Nikon A50, no mirrorless. Okay, dslr, no mirrorless.
Matt Jacob :Keeping your old school roots as long as possible.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I shoot like all times I shoot still like my picture needs to be the right exposure. I'm not thinking in process. Never, never, never. I shoot like I have slide, because I shoot that 18 years Right, and I basically use the 14 and the 24. That's it. I don't normally don't use other lens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's I try. Now I came here to but to Indonesia with 14, 24 and one flash, 14 mil. That's wide man. Yeah, I like that, you like that. I love that.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I can see it in a lot of your photos. I love that, yes, because I came in this trip to one idea and was taking portrait of in West Sumatra with these amazing houses on the back. So for that I was. I want a big, you know, wide angle, you know, and then sometime I want a 24 if I don't want to be so much like wild, you know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matt Jacob :Have you ever faced we talk about representing the culture and preserving, if we can have you ever faced criticism criticism with how you've maybe represented a culture? If so, what was the story?
Sebastian Belaustegui:Yes, I know, for yes, of course, like sometime, if I run a workshop in Oaxaca and I publish it public and people are like, oh, you're doing I don't know how you say it in English when you know gentrification, when, like happening in Bali, like people from all over the world come and live here because it's cheap and things get expensive because people is coming to live here, and you know, and you know sometimes people can be critic, you know, but they just blah, blah, they don't know me, they don't really know my story, my history, why I do that. And then I discovered the guy also is doing pictures of indigenous people. But so I say, well, so you are Mexican and you critique me because I'm white and taking pictures of Mexico. So you don't, we go to Japan, you will not go to India. And then when I saw you traveling in another place, so you're not doing the same thing. So I mean you need to trust and believe what you're doing. You know. And of course, people can be telling you many, many things. I, you know. I want to tell you one story One time when this guy, this holy man, colonel Kappa, contacted me, he contacted me to Time Magazine and I went to see David Friend, who was the director of photography of Time Magazine back in 93.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And the assistant of David cried when he saw the picture because she got emotional with the stories and the pureness of the people. Oh my God, that's going to be incredible. I'm sure they're going to make a great article. I was showing the work, I was not expecting nothing. I was a child, I was 23 years old. I just grabbed my camera two years ago, right. So when David Friend saw the picture, he said this is super nice work, sebastian, congratulations. I love it. But it's a work for a museum or for a gallery. It's too beautiful to be in my magazine.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I say, excuse me, yes, because he, from his office, from his perception, he may think that indigenous must be black and white, they look dirty, they look poor, because that was perceived. But what I told him is like I totally respect you, but let me tell you that these people are not poor. Their lack of material are the most rich people I ever met and that's why all the pictures you saw no black background, no artificial light. All I did in my first book during 10 years was natural light, with natural, you know, backgrounds, because the houses of the indigenous people are pretty dark, so when you put them on the window or the door, all the back became black, like you have a black background, right, and this is how they dress every day and this is how proud they are.
Sebastian Belaustegui:But he didn't get it because he never really traveled and know these people and the assistant got so upset he was like I'm going to talk with him. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't worry, I'm happy. Uh, you perceive something. He perceive another thing. I respect that, but that's my point. You know people sometimes, when they see these faces sometimes super strong looks, they can depend in what also they are feeling or how they are. They can say, oh, they look so sad. No, they're not sad, it's just like. You know, I will never tell them smile to take the picture right. So I think the art of portraits is the way you connect with a person. That's Master Salgado, say, sebastian Salgado, say it's not the photographer, it's the one that is being photographed. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Matt Jacob :Right, absolutely yeah, and connection is a very difficult thing to achieve, but once you get it with the person being photographed, it's priceless right.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I'm talking about. You know different things and of course I can sound, you know, naive on that, but yes, for me, the principal skills on photography it's light and when I'm talking about light it's what I try to also teach in my workshop and I think, and that's I have this. Thank god, this gift, you know, because, as I told you, when I present my work in New York, I didn't know that I was having. I was doing artistic skills, photography, on documentary photography. But, yes, one day everything started like this I was in Oaxaca 91.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I talked with the people and I saw how the light is outside and then I asked the lady you sit inside of the house? And then, when I put a chair near the window of the door, I saw the satellite. I never really studied painting Rembrandt, but something started to. You know, follow my intuition, you know what months doing photography on that style, styling, feeling, without knowing that it's gonna happen. What has happened? When I went to the lab and I have it, I was just exposing the highlights, of course, in those times, my photometer, my way to read my the the light was approaching the camera to the face, you know to. So you know, photography was much more difficult at these days. That's why, when my students start to complain like guys, be thankful. This is a hundred times easier right now to do good photography than before.
Matt Jacob :It's easier to take photos, but I think it's more difficult to become to make a living from it, to work as a photographer, right? So this is just constant.
Sebastian Belaustegui:It is much more difficult to do a living 100 and also, uh, it's much more easy to lose the sense of observing because we are like, yeah and a before. I have 36 shots. 36 shots mean 16 dollar and for me, 16 dollar means almost one week of living.
Matt Jacob :When, if you shoot medium format on 120, that's 10 or 12 shots at probably $20, $25, right, so it's? Yeah, you're much more careful with what you're taking a photo of.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So there is good things and bad things, right?
Matt Jacob :Tell me about some of your experiences, and I know a lot of your work revolves around rituals, around spirituality, as well as just kind of the overarching indigenous topics. Give me an example of maybe a ritual or tradition that you've learned from these indigenous populations that you might have implemented for yourself.
Sebastian Belaustegui:My first body of work of 10 years with indigenous people, guardian of the Time. It's a work very much based on portraits. I decide on those 10 years to don't shoot rituals, on those 10 years to don't shoot rituals, the rituals and ceremonies. I started to do it when I changed to the Afro-descendants topic, because it's another story. And then, of course, when I come to Asia and I feel that I can document that. But in my first 10 years I never take pictures of rituals because I felt that that was very, very private thing and I want to respect that.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Because I was also very green, I was learning on that right. So for me already, the experience of making portrait was enough, but the magic work of the rituals, it's, it's just, it's another level. You know it's another level. I saw things like you will not believe it way these people can predict things. For example, from all my strip on Latin America, my most one relation, my strong relation, was with the. The right word is wixárika, that are, the wixoles, the people who use the peyote. You know, peyote, I don't understand anything, you just said yeah and that's right.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Okay, mexico have 52 different languages, okay, indigenous language 52. And one of the strong tribal indigenous people that Mexico have is called. The tribe name is Huichol, but the right way to call them is Huirarica, like you know, the Mentawai, okay, these one are Huirarica. Huirarica, those people use peyote. Peyote is a cactus, okay, that been used for thousands of years, and when they do the ritual of taking that cactus, they have visions. It's like a mushroom, like a magic mushroom. Ayahuasca, okay, peyote, it's a very strong medicine that they do. Since they are babies, two, three, four years. They take in that right and these people live in another world. And these people, when you wake up, it's not hello, good morning, it's how do you dream? Because for them, the dreams is a stronger connection of our how we can say, unconscious magic work. You know, these people can heal through the dreams. These people, these people I saw people like with a feather. They put the feather in your and they suck it. And they suck it Whatever is there. They transform it, that in a material thing. They split it and you can see like stones, what, yeah, and I saw that. You know what? I tell you one story. One day I am in the peyote ceremony so I am pretty intense ceremony. You're not like on drugs. You are high conscious, you are awareness, you are like sensitive. So I was in the ritual for five days. People dance. They don't sleep. The shamans sing all day. They do this incredible dance.
Sebastian Belaustegui:It's a long story ceremony and then one guy comes and say hey, there's a guy in the community that a scorpion bite on the neck and he's out of control with. And I'm, like you know, in the ceremony. So when I go there to try to help him, he was very scary. So he started to be a little bit violent, right. So I was like I mean I would like to help you but I don't bring Western medicine, so why we don't go with the shamans? So I go with my strong connection shaman, an elder, and say can you come please, because someone is being bit by the scorpion. So of course his energy is so strong that this guy stopped to be violent and he was like this shaking. He had like even you know, like licking in the mouth and he came. I was with him because you need to understand, I did some shamanic work with them, right. So he put feathers here, he started to pray, and then he put the mouth where the scorpion you know, but beat him, bite him.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Stung with the with the tail, yeah, he make this and and then split and small scorpion, I saw it.
Sebastian Belaustegui:No Promise promise, A baby scorpion came out of his mouth after he sucked the guy's yes yes, yes, yes, yes, I saw that I was not high, I was super awake because peyote, don't put you like ayahuasca, that really give you to another world that you abstract. You know DMT abstract. No, this is, peyote is different, right? So I saw that and half an hour later the guy was like nothing happened. He just got the spirit from him, right, and I saw many, many, many things, like with the shamans, like with the mushrooms. You know they don't take mushrooms for have fun. No, they do, because every illness comes from the spiritual level. You have that in Bali as well.
Sebastian Belaustegui:If you get sick, it's because your emotion. That's why stress is the worst poison for our body and for our mind. Stress is number one, right. So that's why these people and I understand doctors, I understand I respect science, but they don't see that Everything comes first from emotions, from spirits, from inside. That's why it's so important mental health, because that can prevent cancer and so many, many, many other things, right? So I get engaged in that.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I did my work. I did five years of sex, celibacy, celibacy, yeah, I did it five years, because that's how they became. You know, I don't say I became that, but I want to understand that. So I follow that no salt, no salt, no salt, no salt and no sex. Five years To start to understand that. Yeah, and there is some shamans I met. They've been 20 years celibates. They're the most stronger shamans because sex energy is the strongest energy we can have, because we create life. So if we create life, we can do also many, many, many things with that energy and I saw that in different shamanic places around the world that they don't have connection between, but they do the same thing, right.
Sebastian Belaustegui:So I didn't like to take pictures about that because that was my personal, you know, journey, you know. But then I started to get more like, invite people started to invite me more to document that kind of things. Right, but I still think it is better to keep your camera because then you can perceive deeper things If you're not taking care about the camera. Expositions much more important things to see than a picture of that. Yeah, fascinating, it's amazing, it's amazing, it's amazing. Yeah, fascinating, it's amazing, it's amazing, it's amazing.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I mean, one time, one time with this same tribe, I was walking in the mountains with a friend. My friend almost died because it got dark in Mexico. It got dark. We were climbing a holy place that these tribes go far away from where they live. But they walk 15 days to go to this holy place where they call the burning place the burning because it's where the sun grows up for the first time. So when the sun comes for the first time, it burns those hills. That's why they call it like this it's the Mecca of them, right? So my friend in the night almost died because he get lost, and three in the morning I put a tent because I arrived in the afternoon super high after walking all day. We almost, we almost he almost died.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Anyway, a year later I never went to this community, I never talked about that to them. I go and one guy comes to me and said wow, you are the one that your friend almost died, and he described me exactly what happened me, exactly what happened. I was like how do you know that? I dream it, I dream about that, and that's so many many stories I have done. People are like what You're making? No, no, no, no, no. I believe in everything. That's why I told you how I heal myself, because I knew there is always a stronger thing around us that can be, you know, so powerful, you know.
Matt Jacob :But you had to go through, you had to become something worse than that in order to grow again right To breathe, breathe life into that. So it's not all great, it's not all. Belief wins above all right. It's understanding, being aware and being able to take from these experiences that might work for you. Everyone's different, Some things might stick, Some things might work for one person and it might not work for another. Right, what do you hope that people take away from your work, from your photographs? We talked about a lot of great stories today.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Hope, Hope yes, when I give a conference and they invite me in a university for say some example, and I have a crowd full of new generation. What is happening? Because everything is happening right now with the weather, with the climate change. Thank you so much for that. I heard that 30 years ago from indigenous people and of course, they don't hear them because they don't hear the science, people who are saying also the same thing, right. So all that already, they know it, they saw it, they feel it right. So of course, new generation can be very, you know, anxiety of what is going to happen. So when I give a presentation and I show 30 different tribes and some of my stories, I just my bigger wish is to bring them hope, because you know what the earth is. Okay, man, the earth is not going to survive. It's about us Survive long after us.
Sebastian Belaustegui:Yes, the earth is okay. You see Kuta, you see all these places. Nothing to the earth. It will recover, like someone is sick from the liver, and the liver recover. The earth recover faster than that and everything will be back how it was before. It's about, yes, it's a mystery how it's going to be the next generation, how it's going to be the world in the future. But I mean, yes, we are in a fragile moment. How are we going to survive? I understand how scary it can be for a new generation, but I don't know.
Sebastian Belaustegui:I have hope, man. I have hope because these people give me hope, you know, these people give me this hope, you know and I still many sad things. Wars are still going on, you know. But you know what I was thinking lately, these days, to say to the people, and I say that here. We think the world is full of assholes. Yes, political right, because we read that. But my experience traveling around 50 countries around the world, there were, I will say, 97% or 98% or 99% of beautiful people, man, because people is beautiful. Anywhere you go Iran, india, south America, asia, central Asia you go to the front people is beautiful. So, yes, there's much more beautiful people in this planet than assholes, that's for sure. Way more, and that's how you call it, good anashi. So the world is more surrounded of good anashi than bad anashi, you know.
Matt Jacob :Speaking of words. Where does Suki come from?
Sebastian Belaustegui:My nana who grew me up, because when I was a baby she called me my nana. Wawita Sumita, in Quechua language from the north of argentina, means cute baby, and the shortcut of wawita sumita is suki. So my nana that raised me up when my father was working called me suki all my life. But guess what? One day I discovered that suki in japanese is I like you, and also I discovered that in indian hindu is happy. So it's a nice name. It's perfect. I like you happy. You know, yeah, like you happy. Like you happy. So, yeah, yeah. So most of my friends know me as suki well.
Matt Jacob :you're definitely one of the 99 percent of the beautiful people in this world. Thank, thank you so much for having such a beautiful conversation. It's been such a privilege to have you and thank you for sharing what you've shared. I wish you the best of luck with your renewed vigoration and your renewed photography journey, and I'll certainly be watching from afar. Where can people see you? Where can people find you? How can we observe what you, what you're doing next?
Sebastian Belaustegui:well, I have a website that I will call that's my portfolio and I used to be, before my portfolio, my website photosuki photos in english, s-u-k-i, a photo in a p-o-t-o. We'll link it. We'll link it in the description. Yeah, yeah, that's my website and Instagram it's different. Maybe we can put it in the video, but my Instagram and then I promote in my workshop. My workshops basically are in remote areas and we try to avoid tourist areas. We try to go to local people, local tradition, local festivities, understanding that it's a mix of photography with culture and having a beautiful experience.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And people became very, very happy with the workshop because I think we take away all this pressure of like doing photography as a competition and putting the ego. And another thing I would like to say and I respect all kind of work that when I run workshop, I let the people do what they need. They need to work in my workshop. I don't like to make one scenes and everybody take the same picture, because it's nice for the ego, it's nice for your likes in Instagram, but you don't grow up. I think so, with all my respect on that. So I prefer like, I teach them, I give you all my knowledge, I can share with them. But then, yes, we work together, but everybody needs to create, you know, their own story at some point, make you know sometime I can help them to contact the people, but I try to don't influence on how to take the picture, you know, otherwise I think I limit them the way to learn right. So that's another one.
Sebastian Belaustegui:And then the rest. Please, new generation, keep working. Thank you so much to all the group, to all the teams, and I was also waiting for. You did a great work, thank you. You have been growing up a lot as a photographer Congratulations for that and you've been doing this beautiful work bringing, also raising the voices, and this is a little bit in a different way, what you're doing, that's what we do. When you ask me why I do that? To bring hope, to preserve, but basically also and I forgot to mention that to put a platform for them to put their voices, their message, because it's not about my photography, it's about them.
Matt Jacob :Yeah, what a beautiful way to end the conversation. Thank you so much, sebastian. Thank you so much, suki. Until next time. Hopefully I can join one of your workshops one day, you're welcome, I'm going to be around, but until then take care. Thank you so much, thank you.
