The MOOD Podcast
In The MOOD Podcast, Matt Jacob, renowned cultural portrait photographer, dives deep into the world of photography and the visual arts, with guests from all around the creative industry, across all parts of the globe, sharing inspiring stories and experiences that will leave you wanting more. With years of experience and a passion for storytelling, Matt has become a master of capturing lesser-told human stories through his photography, and teams up with other special artists from around the world to showcase insights, experiences and opinions within the diverse and sometimes controversial photography world.
You can watch these podcasts on his Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay.
You can also follow Matt's work on his Instagram @mattyj_ay and his website: https://mattjacobphotography.com.
The MOOD Podcast
What Happens When Architecture Meets the Camera? - Stephen Karlisch, EO94
"My photographs don't grow up dreaming of being pixels."
What does it mean to make timeless work in a digital world obsessed with speed, algorithms, and saturation?
In this episode, we explore the philosophy and craft behind one of the most respected names in interior and architectural photography.
Stephen Karlisch is a master of interior photography whose refined eye has helped shape the way we experience some of the world’s most beautifully designed spaces. With work featured in Architectural Digest, Elle Decor, House Beautiful, Veranda, and beyond, Stephen has spent the past two decades translating architectural form into imagery that feels sculptural, soulful, and enduring. Beyond his photography, he’s also an educator and community builder, helping the next generation of photographers grow through craft, connection, and clarity.
In this conversation, we discuss:
- The differences between architectural, real estate, and interior photography
- Why stylists are often the unsung heroes of publishable imagery
- The evolution of the interior photography industry from pre-internet to AI
- What it takes to consistently get published in major design magazines
- Building emotional mood through light, space, and timing
- How to work collaboratively with designers and stylists on set
- Why Stephen prioritizes timelessness over trends in his editing style
- The value of printing your work—and why most photographers skip it
- His definition of creative success after 25 years in the business
Find Stephen's work on his platforms:
Website: www.stephenkarlisch.com
Instagram: @stephen_karlisch_photo
____________________________________________
Message me, leave a comment and join in the conversation!
Thank you for listening and for being a part of this incredible community. You can also watch this episode on my YouTube channel (link below) where I also share insights, photography tips and behind-the-scenes content on my channel as well as my social media, so make sure to follow me on Instagram, Twitter, Threads and TikTok or check out my website for my complete portfolio of work.
YouTube:
www.youtube.com/@mattyj_ay
Learn with me
https://mattjacobphotography.com/voice-alchemy
My Newsletter
https://mattjacobphotography.com/newsletter
Website:
www.mattjacobphotography.com
Socials:
IG | X | TikTok | Threads | YouTube | @mattyj_ay
Welcome to the Mood Podcast, uncovering the art of conversation through the lens of photography and creativity, one frame at a time. I'm your host, matt Jacob, and thank you for joining me again in today's conversation. My guest is Stephen Karlich, a master of interior and architectural photography whose refined eye has helped shape the way we see some of the world's most beautifully designed spaces, with work published all over the place in publications such as Architectural Digest, elle Decor, veranda, house Beautiful and so many more. Stephen has spent the past two decades translating three-dimensional design into still imagery that feels timeless, elegant and deeply human. His journey from studying architecture to photographing homes around the world offers a really fascinating look at the intersection of light, form and emotional storytelling. In my conversation with him, we really explore how Stephen's global upbringing shaped his artistic perspective, how he uses light as a sculptural and emotional tool, and how he navigates the often unseen power dynamics between designers, magazines and his own creative voice. We also dive into the business side of his career, how he's managed to stay consistently in demand, the strategy behind getting published, and how he balances commercial success with some kind of artistic growth. So now I bring you Stephen Karlich.
Matt Jacob:Stephen Karlich, welcome to the Moo Podcast Thanks for joining me. Thanks, matt.
Stephen Karlisch:Pleasure to be here.
Matt Jacob:So, yeah, we touch base online. We haven't met, but it's a pleasure to meet you online and you know we were saying off air how interested I am to kind of dive into the world of interior and architectural photography because I'm so ignorant of a lot of it. So we're going to. You're going to be giving me some lessons as we go, but before we do that, give me a background of you. You know, know the amount you've been in the industry for for a long time. Um, tell me how it all started, what your, your background was and what led you up until up to this point where you become this successful, professional interior and architectural photographer well, okay, well, let's see if I can do this quickly.
Stephen Karlisch:I've been in the business for a long time and I like to tell people I was a failed architecture student in college which kind of led me to the art department and photography back in the early to mid-90s and that sort of led me to moving to Dallas, Texas and it was a big growing city at the time and got into the photo biz in Dallas, which for me was fashion and a lot of advertising photography and portrait photography. So I kind of started in that realm in the mid 90s as an assistant and worked my way through, you know, wanting to be a fashion photographer for a couple of years and then wanting to be an advertising, commercial photographer and you know, going through sort of the paces of being, you know, professional assistant and learning, and when I finally finally started getting a break shooting for magazines, they were hiring me to shoot portraits and they were sending me out to shoot I was working for like Women's Wear Daily and some local magazines and shooting store owners and mainly like fashion people in the fashion industry and restaurants and restaurant chefs and owners and you know, go to their locations and photograph them but also get pics of the place. And you know this is the late 90s, right around 2000. And interior photography back then was not what it is today and the references that were out there were few and far between. I mean, you had Architectural Digest, which was really kind of stuffy, and you know the bigger magazines that still exist today, like Eldecore and you know Veranda and things like that, but not a lot of, not a lot of resources and references and, of course, no internet.
Stephen Karlisch:And so I was just having fun shooting, you know, reliving some of my architectural past and enjoying the interior side of documenting these places. And it started to lead into one magazine saying you know, do you want to shoot an interior, you want to shoot a house? And I was like sure, and then that was a big feature. And that just kind of led to another and another and another. And you know, before you knew it, I was really really into the interior editorial world or whatever it was in the early 2000s, mid, you know, late 2000s in uh, in dallas, and sort of that just kind of has exploded in the last, you know, 10 years.
Stephen Karlisch:So I've been doing this a long time and I've been through the whole pace of film to digital, you know, pre internet to internet, to social media, to wherever we are now AI. So it's, it's been a, it's been quite a journey and, um, now we're really, um, you know the interior side of my business. I still shoot. Um, I would say 80% of my business is shooting and then 20% is education and we run a community, uh, for interior photographers online. So that's become another passion of mine. Now we're sort of transitioning into being part of the educational side of the industry.
Matt Jacob:Cool, and you mentioned AI there, and I'm really fascinated to hear how that might impact your work, if at all, in the future. We'll get to that, but rewind a little bit more. How did architecture generally come into your life, but, more importantly, why? What was it about architecture that fascinated you?
Stephen Karlisch:You know, my father was in the Navy and I grew up all over the world, so you know, hawaii, to Asia, to Japan, and we lived in Italy for several years and then we lived in Italy for several years and then we lived in Belgium and, um, and I think through all of our travels, my dad was an avid photographer hobbyist.
Stephen Karlisch:You know he had the, you know the Canon AE-1 with the lenses and the tripods and shooting slide film and, um, you know, always doing the slide shows at home for the family. You know, every couple of months you know we would get together and and look through all of the slides and the carousels. And you know, and it just sort of led to this appreciation of in my travels, of looking at architecture and liking architecture and appreciating it, um, from the historical side to just the, you know, the, the artistic side of the beauty of, of the different styles, of the different places we lived in. Living in Rome and living in Belgium is completely different and recognizing that at an early age sort of just really sunk in and led me to want to be an architect in architecture school.
Matt Jacob:Do you feel like architecture now is as prevalent as it used to be, what with explosions of populations and the need for more homogeneity in architecture? I mean, do you do you do you look at it like that at all, or do you still think there's as much beauty in architecture these days as there ever was?
Stephen Karlisch:Well, I think architecture is that they have the same sort of issues to deal with as photographers do, and it's just this mass consumption of imagery and seeing everybody's work all the time and everybody's style starts to transition from one area to the next, to the next. And you know, an architect in New Zealand is going to be seen by an architect in Louisiana and that's going to influence them. And you know an architect in New Zealand is going to be seen by an architect in Louisiana and that's going to influence them. And you know, I feel you know early on, when I was getting started. You know, pre-internet days, things are more defined geographically of imagery that's just stacked across, like all of our different fields is just, you know it's made this sort of, this worldwide explosion of creators and architects are definitely creators and some of the best that are out there. And you know it's amazing to see what is evolving.
Stephen Karlisch:I think when I was in architecture school back in the early 90s, I was really more focused on, you know, studying a little bit more about commercial architecture and you know some of the bigger name architects. And now I kind of feel like I'm in the residential space and I see this huge explosion in residential, where the architects in the residential side are. You know the rock stars, I mean, you still have the huge firms that are doing all the big projects around the world, the big airports, hotels, all that kind of stuff, and you know the important buildings. But when it comes to residential, I feel like now they have this place where you're really starting to see this elevated platform of architects all around the world that are just becoming huge, you know, and it's mainly the residential, which which I didn't see a lot when I was in school where does the role of the photographer fit in?
Matt Jacob:and in terms of the team, right is the. They're all big teams that collaborate together yeah how did?
Stephen Karlisch:how does it work? You know it keeps that. That keeps changing year by year. I think now I'm starting to see more um.
Stephen Karlisch:Design firms sort of absorb a a role within their firms of a, you know, marketing person who is a creator, so it could be somebody who's there to document the projects as a photographer or somebody to do the video. So I'm someone to do the media stuff on the social media. So I'm starting to see more of these. The bigger firms especially have in-house photographers, but they do still seek out, you know, photographers around the world that are going to be able to, you know, capture their products in different regions. But you know there's just more and more work out there for photographers like me and people that shoot architecture.
Stephen Karlisch:It's just growing and expanding and people have more outlets now with media it's easier to get things seen social media to traditional media that you know everybody wants to document every little thing they do. So you know the the amount of work that we can do now is endless. So we can dive into video, we can dive into creating lots of different things for all these different firms does that mean that your, your work has become devalued or increased in value?
Matt Jacob:if now it's more ubiquitous, right? And it's the, the possibility, the opportunities, possibilities maybe more, but also the the supply of that type of work may arguably more. How have you found that?
Stephen Karlisch:yeah, I think you know, I see, I see it going both ways. I see, um, you know, there are certain opportunities out there for photographers who are unique and that really have a great sense of style and brand identity within their own you know sort of realm as a, as a personal artist, um, that firms are looking for and designers, architects are looking for, and those photographers are wildly successful, um, and those photographers are wildly successful, um, and I feel like the work is endless for them and the the opportunities for them is this just grows all the time. And but I do see the other side of the industry where you have a lot of people getting in to the business and it's, you know, I'm on the education side, so I see how good people become quickly now. So, and I'm part of that, I'm teaching them.
Stephen Karlisch:But I enjoy to see, you know, somebody pick up a camera who has never done an interior shoot, grasp it within a couple of months, and better and better on the low end to the medium um end of photography, which does, you know, drive down some aspect of prices because there's more opportunities, there's more people out there doing it. So, um, but I still, I still feel like, um, you know the best you know, the better you are. You know you should still be able to keep raising your rates and getting better clients and you know that's all part of the gig. I think in any aspect of photography the opportunities are. They're definitely still there.
Matt Jacob:So yeah, it's interesting. You say that because you know not how ai. You know, I'm thinking you know, from from the architectural blank canvas to the final product. Is there a point where human photographers will become more valued, or do you think they'll be cut out altogether in that process? You could go from architectural drawings to AI images without having to deal with a photographer. Is that too much of a reductive way of putting it, or how do you? How do you think about that?
Stephen Karlisch:I definitely think that, um, the ease of creating imagery through through AI, um, for, for a firm, um, any, any designer or any kind of client that I have now um is going to be, just, it's just going to get easier and easier and easier for them, so, you know, for them to be able to throw in a floor plan or a sketch or something and then kind of have it translated through AI. You know, I've already seen that happen. Or AI taking a still image and making video clips out of it, where you're transitioning through a space and you can't tell if it's real or not. You know you're like, okay, that that I would never know. Um, so you know, you start to think about, okay, these are things that just aren't going to be available to shoot potentially, you know, for people like me.
Stephen Karlisch:But you know, I also think that there's for what, what they're trying to sell, there's, there's a sense of at least for now, I'm still holding onto it Um, a sense of wanting to share the real aspect of what it is that they do. I mean, there's still needs to be. This sense of this really exists and this is the real thing. So I still um, you know I'm I'm still holding on. You know, I want to believe that that's going to be important in the future even more so, and you know that even leads to less retouching and less, just to really make sure that we know we see the flaws, you know we see the outlets, we see the power lines in the backyard.
Matt Jacob:We know it's real, you know you know and how do, how do your students feel about that? I mean that because I I see this on my side of the fence. I guess it's the passion for photography and that specific genre or that that you know the, the path that they want to take is so strong. But there's, you know, the head is also looking into the future and looking how fast AI is developing, or looking at the general saturation of photographers in the market and there's this constant, I guess, dissonance between their passion for what they want to do. But also, is this actually going to be a business in three to five years? Is this something that gets talked about? In terms of your education and the students that you teach?
Stephen Karlisch:not necessarily um, through what I'm teaching, but you know, with some of my friends in the industry we do. We do talk about it a little bit um, and I think there's always I mean, I've been in this for so long that, honestly, like I've seen, seen this, I've seen this fear, this technology fear, come and go several times and and yes, it does scare certain people out of the industry, um, which is fine. I mean, there's certain people that have other interests and other other means of of creating a living and they're they're going to go and and and do that um, you know, maybe be more successful. But uh, you know, I think you know, this is the only thing I can do. So I'm kind of, I'm kind of stuck. I'm, I'm I'm a lifelong guitarist.
Stephen Karlisch:I knew that long time ago I was like I'm going to die with a camera in my hand. So I'm, I'm sort of of the mindset that this is, this is it, and I'm going to ride it out till till the end and um, but other people may not sort of have the same mental frame of mind, you know, to kind of stick with it through the ups and downs, cause there's definitely being a solo creator, there's a ton of ups and downs.
Matt Jacob:Yeah, just uncertainty, right. And I would argue that someone in your position, uh, who you know, you say that this is definitely what you can do for the rest of your life. Right, I mean, I'm the same. But if someone is in your position who's able to have that business behind them already already established, right, so you you're able, likely to be able to pick and choose your clients or at least charge what you want to charge. And I'm thinking more of the, the people entering the market, or that you know, the professionals that kind of just turn professional and they're thinking, you know, I'm gonna have to undervalue myself, I'm gonna have to underprice, because if I overprice then the client is just going to turn to either someone else, or or ai or you, or a synthetic version. But these are just theories of mine. I don't know enough about that sector of the industry.
Stephen Karlisch:Well, that existed when I started in the 90s and it was a topic of conversation then too. And the same thing kind of happened when digital started popping up in the early 2000s and nobody knew what to do with it and I saw friends of mine in the lab industry go out of business. And then you know they've come back into business in the last 10 years because of film. You know resurgence, and you know it's. All I have to say is you know starting anything is scary. And you know, if you're just kind of starting out as a photographer in any kind of aspect of photography any, any genre I mean sports portraits, weddings, you know landscape, fine art, you're you're just going to have this struggle. That's going to exist, right.
Stephen Karlisch:So, um, I just tell people like it's a long game, I mean the longer that you stick with anything creative, you're going to succeed. And you know it's really easy to give up early on just because you know maybe the work's not there and there's a lot of uncertainty. But I just honestly feel like it's it's an, it's a numbers thing, it's a, it's a time thing. It's like you got to keep riding that that arc of time and keep creating and creating and people will start to find you. Now you have to have talent, a little bit of talent and a little bit of business savvy, of course, but and people skills.
Stephen Karlisch:But you know, beyond all of that, it's, it's, it's a numbers thing. So just I just tell people you know, just to stick with it and just to just to try different things. I mean it's, you can reinvent yourself as a photographer a thousand different ways, right, yeah, I mean, with our camera I could do anything. With my camera I can go do. I mean I could. Just I could. Honestly, if the interiors thing blew up overnight and it wasn't around tomorrow, I would transition and go to a different avenue in photography. You know, there's so many.
Matt Jacob:And you do. You dabble in other avenues of photography, right? What? What else interests you with the camera?
Stephen Karlisch:Uh, um, I mean, I've always been fascinated with the fine art side of photography. Um, and you know again, you know we could talk about this whole fear thing and success thing on that end. And it's just, you know, putting the time into it. And so I know, until I put the time into it it's not gonna it's not gonna work Right. So I have to kind of take that risk, that leap, to put the time into it. So that's always something that is on the back of my mind.
Stephen Karlisch:I'm at a point in my career now where I can be a little bit more selfish and take a little more time to kind of do things for myself as a photographer, which I probably should have done more of early on. But you know, you get kind of wrapped up in, you know, the business life and kind of leave things behind for a few years while you're building something, and so that's always interested me. I mean, I shot weddings for 20 years. My wife and I ran a wedding business as on the long side of the interiors and shooting commercially and, um, you know, we were just trying to make, make ends meet. Make, you know, make money and build a business and raise kids and, you know, put money away for retirement and college and you know all that stuff. So you got to kind of kind of do what you got to do.
Matt Jacob:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got to adapt and evolve, and I always talk about having, um, patience, of consistency and consistency for patients, and you talked about, just okay, you can adapt and evolve, but as long as you keep trying, coming back, coming back, coming back, you know, know, invariably you're going to get to the point that you wanted to, or get to a point that would you would consider, made it, or successful, right. So, um, there's a lot of inspiration to be garnered by your journey. And, speaking of your journey, so what, how, in terms of everywhere you lived, you know, growing up with father in the military and moving all around the living places all around the world, do you think that really shaped your kind of cultural insight and cultural perspective of architecture and how you kind of perceive the world through your camera? In that sense, and would that then be, you know, a huge factor in what made you unique as an interior photographer?
Stephen Karlisch:I think it definitely played a role and you know, I think it's a part of who I am and you know, recognizing, you know, imagery from my past that you know I sort of, you know can recount.
Stephen Karlisch:You know, magazines that I looked at, you know, when I was younger, when looked at you know when I was younger when I was living in europe, for example, um, you know, just just that sort of influence of um being in those spaces and and just remembering sort of how, how you felt in those spaces, kind of, you know, versus being in a, you know, a suburban home in the middle of the united states your whole life, where you're kind of kind of missing that, that sort of understanding of what else is, what else sort of exists and sort of how it looks and feels.
Stephen Karlisch:So I think that sort of helps shape a little bit of the you know my approach when it comes to you know thinking about things from, you know, an architect or an interior designer's point of view, because I know that they're they're in tune with that as well and they're they're aware of it and they, they see it and they experience it too. So, um, you know, I definitely feel like I was fortunate to see what I saw at an early age and got to travel and and got to sort of um know that there's just so much more out there, you know, and it just really really helps to sort of know things are bigger, things are greater things are, you know, can be more important, you know.
Matt Jacob:So when you see a space, now I'm really interested in how you can translate a static space into something that's full of feeling and a narrative, right. So you know, I guess that's why people pay the big bucks, right? But tell us, is this something that you've really cultivated in terms of the art side of of essentially taking photos, right, tell us how you go about doing that. You really hone in on light, or is it about the composition, or is it about the design itself, or is it all of this stuff that gets bonded up into the magic of what is your photography?
Stephen Karlisch:It's a lot of things and definitely, you know, light, light is a huge part of it. Yeah, I think with all photography it all kind of starts with light. Right, it's, it's the quality of light, like the direction of light. Um, you know, we can control it a lot with what we do. We're working in a static environment that is not moving. Occasionally we have people or pets in there, but you know, beyond that, we're looking at furniture and rooms.
Stephen Karlisch:So we are able to kind of pick and choose, you know, different times a day to shoot a space when we understand the light is going to be coming from a certain direction through a window or door, or maybe we don't have the luxury of time and we are using artificial lighting to, you know, kind of create the light to come from a certain direction, to create the depth in a shot that we want. And depending on sort of the style of the design, the elements in the room, the colors, sort of the style of the design, the elements in the room, the colors, the textures, you know, we can use lighting to sort of create this mood that you know evokes some sort of a response that doesn't necessarily exist if it's just kind of turn all the lights on and it's just kind of, you know, a real estate type of a photo.
Matt Jacob:So and is that mood sorry to interrupt? Is that mood sorry to interrupt? Is that mood almost given to you by the client in terms of creative brief, or is that down down to you most of the time?
Stephen Karlisch:sometimes we try to push clients to be more moody than they and they then they want to be. I think a lot, of, a lot of people, um, don't necessarily know what their mood, what what best mood is, and so that's why they're bringing us in to kind of see what we can do and we can create. They want us to create something that they can't. They can't necessarily see themselves or create themselves through using their phone or using their own camera. And you know, I think now, as an interior photographer, to really stand out, you've kind of you really have to have a point of view in terms of style and look on my space, because I know they're going to see something and they're going to bring something out of it that evokes this type of a mood and a feeling where they really really identify. You know their brand is front and center and their style is front and center. You know the big dogs, the big superstars that are out there. So there's definitely different levels of photography photographers in the space.
Matt Jacob:And so what is the process on a kind of a normal interior shoot, then? Is it you working directly alongside a designer, or is it just kind of? Well, here's the space off you go, it's.
Stephen Karlisch:It's down to you yeah, and I just just to kind of back up a little bit, um, in case anybody has like a question about like, the different genres of of what I do. So there's architecture photographers, there's real estate photographers, there's interior photographers. I'm an interior photographer and what that means is I work for interior designers and I shoot primarily residential spaces, interior spaces, and we're really focused on telling the story of the interior designer. So it's a little less about the architecture, it's more about the color story, the textures, the items that they incorporated in the space, and the is something that a homeowner is not necessarily capable of doing themselves and they need help. So they're hiring these designers to create these amazing spaces and they've got the budget to do that. An architectural photographer it's a little bit different. They're capturing the space for the space, a little less focused on the design elements within the space, the furniture. So they're typically doing, you know, more natural light, more overall type of larger scale room shots, room to room, telling the story of the building as a whole. And then, of course, real estate is just real estate and that's kind of a you know, in and out, kind of quick representation of just what it is. So what I do is specifically just dealing with designers. Occasionally I'll get hired by an architect but, and sometimes they kind of collaborate with the designer and then.
Stephen Karlisch:So when I go to a photo shoot, it's it's to document the house and it is a process of scouting the location first. If I'm local, I can scout it. I like to walk the space. Usually if there's a stylist involved, we try to all walk it together. I photograph it just with a handheld camera there, um, I photograph it, um, just with a handheld, you know, camera. I'm just documenting the space, documenting the rooms from different vantage points. That I think are are good compositions. Um, we evaluate the scouting shots, um, for creating a just a typical flow through the day. So we'll understand, like, where we're going to start, where we're going to go in the middle of the day, where we're going to go to the end of the day, based on the lighting, if we can take advantage of a view, take advantage of the sun coming in through a window. All that stuff plays an important role and it's all discussed in advance.
Stephen Karlisch:I know there's some photographers that like to just show up blind and roll out of their car with a camera and, you know, let the inspiration, hit them, you know, as they hit the ground, and that's that's a good approach for some people, but for me, you know, I just really want to maximize my time while I'm there and know what's coming up, and be be aware of the the next step and the next shot, and get through a day sort of as a sort of a pre-planned, kind of almost like a commercial shoot, where, you know, shot one is at 9 am and it's up the kitchen and it's from here and it's seeing this part of the kitchen and the light's gonna be streaming through this window and we're gonna have all the styling ready and everything's good to go and everybody's on board.
Stephen Karlisch:And as soon as we hit that, we're changing, we're moving over to this area, you know, next to the kitchen, still going to capture some of that light, you know. So it's like you have this progression through the day and everybody's on the same page and everybody's following along. So that's that's how I work, and is that normally? So that's that's how I work and is that normally so?
Stephen Karlisch:that's normally a two-day process a lot of a lot of houses I shoot are typically two days. Some are three days. Uh, occasionally I'll do a one day shoot, um, but I think now most people are really trying to push more for two days and, uh, you know most most homes to really kind of get the entire home, I'd say you need two days. Unless you know most homes. To really kind of get the entire home, I'd say you need two days, unless you know. If it's not two days, you're kind of leaving a lot of things up to chance. You know it could rain, you could have bad weather, something could be delayed, something's not, you know. Anyway, it's just two days always gives you a much better opportunity to get better imagery. The client can kind of walk away knowing that it's complete. You've got what they need, they can, they've got a full set of images. They don't have to go back yeah, yeah.
Matt Jacob:So what are the most, what, what would be the most common issues or challenges that that you would face? That you're already kind of anticipating ahead of time and you know, being so experienced, what, what are the normal kind of things you have to overcome, if any?
Stephen Karlisch:Uh, well, I mean, there's a list, right. So, um, you know, I think, time of year, you know you have to worry about daylight, so, um, certain times of the year, uh, you know, shoots get cut short because you run out of light at four o'clock in the afternoon and or doesn't really start to get light until you know nine, nine thirty in the morning, and other times of the year it's the opposite. Where you have, you have light all day, you know you can shoot till nine o'clock at night, um, which can kind of lead into some other issues where you might be, you know, extending these days really really, really, really long and, um, you know, kind of spending too much time on a project, which can be another problem. But you've got that. You have issues with weather.
Stephen Karlisch:You know pets, you've got homeowners that might be in the, in the situation you know in the house and you know landscaping crews outside the windows. You know, with leaf blowers driving everybody crazy all day, or you know lots of. You know vans in the street on the. You know outside of a window and you know the clients are. You know what are you going to do with? What are you going to do with all those cars in the window and you know all these. Those are the kinds of the bigger, bigger things that I have to kind of worry about, but not not a huge issue, but you know we can fix some of those things.
Matt Jacob:What about relationships with the designer? I mean, I presume you know you've been around long enough to have know who you can work well with and maybe who you can't. Has there ever been a clash there?
Stephen Karlisch:A few, you know, not a ton of clashes, I think you know, sometimes you get hired for a shoot that, um, you don't realize until you're kind of in the middle of it that maybe you you're not the best fit for the designer. And and I and I say that, um because it's easy to, it's easy for me to shoot for anyone, like I can, I can definitely pick up a camera and go shoot for any, any designer and deliver a great product. That's, that's not an issue Um, but sometimes I feel like there are other people that could do a better job for that client. Maybe it's a stylistic thing, um, technique thing, uh, finishing, you know, overall sort of look and style that a photographer can bring to to a project, and and I've actually, you know overall sort of look and style that a photographer can bring to to a project, and, and I've actually, you know, recommended other photographers to designers afterwards, you know, like you know, try so-and-so, next time, um might be a better fit, and I think that you know it's kind of like it's a relationship, business and um, you know, I think the designers that I've shot for for years I have a really good, you know, relationship with and um, I kind of know that they'll probably keep calling me for, you know, years to come.
Stephen Karlisch:Um doesn't mean they'll always use me, but you know, I know that I'm sort of on the on the list of of people they're going to think about when they've got a shoot coming up.
Stephen Karlisch:So, um, but yeah, it's an interesting. It's an interesting thing because it's such a personal sort of artistic, you know, moment. It's the designers, it's you know, it's the end of the deal. They've been working on a project for two or three years and it all sort of comes down to this one two day photo shoot and that's it Right. I mean, that's the documentation of the project and you know there's a lot of emotions that are involved. Um, there's a lot of relief, you know, from the designer and they're just kind of kind of happy that this part of it's done and they can move on, um, but you know it's like a lot of times I mean mean there's a lot of pressure to kind of create this end product that really sort of solidifies like what they did and get published and and get good, you know yeah, I can imagine there's, there's a lot of pressure there, um, tacit or otherwise.
Matt Jacob:But when does when does then it go to the next phase where I see you in publications, right, and I see you plastered all over magazines and this clearly has been something that's you know, a story of your success, essentially and maybe it isn't you can correct me if not but being published so often and being so present in such big magazines Architectural Digest and Veranda, etc. What was the strategy behind this exposure? Or was there anything at all? It was just that you got noticed. How does that go these days?
Stephen Karlisch:I think early on it was more that just when I first got into shooting interiors 25 years ago, there just weren't a lot of outlets for for press and there weren't a lot of people shooting. I mean, I think in I'm in Dallas, texas, and I can remember when I got started there might have been three or four other photographers that kind of were at that, that kind of were at that regional, national, editorial sort of level, that were that were I considered competitors. Um, there weren't a lot of people doing it and uh, you know the, the opportunities for us to shoot were, um, you couldn't really make, you couldn't make a living as an interior photographer. Then it was, there just wasn't enough work. I mean, the designers weren't documenting their projects the way they are now. They were waiting for a magazine to to want to want to shoot their project. And that's how. That's how I would get brought in and I'd get hired by the, by the magazine. They put together the whole team and we'd do the photo shoot and then the designer would would purchase the images afterwards and so you would kind of get, and then the designer would purchase the images afterwards and so you would kind of get. You know, you would get the work that way.
Stephen Karlisch:And then you know, as designers started doing websites I mean, I was around, you know pre-website era and you know saw the explosion of websites and then all of a sudden they were like, oh, we need images for our website. So then that became that next step of started shooting more and more and more, and then social media exploded and everybody wants a picture of everything now. So it's a little crazy. I kind of rambled there. I forgot what the question was. I'm like totally what the?
Matt Jacob:yeah, no, I, I just um my ears perked up when you said you're around for websites. I can hear our gen z audience their eyes popping size. I can hear our gen z audience their eyes popping at that statement. Yeah, um, yeah, it was more the the. Is that? Is that part of a business strategy now or is that kind of back in the day in terms of getting published? Is something you promote to up-and-coming interior architectural photographers?
Stephen Karlisch:yeah, so okay, the whole getting published thing, um, okay, so, so, so, yeah. So back then it was just, they're just, you know, were hired. The magazines are hiring me. So now, except for a few instances with certain magazines, you're, you're, you're shooting for the designers and you're submitting the images to try to get picked up by a magazine.
Stephen Karlisch:And I've had success, um, largely because I think my images, um, they, they work editorially, um, stylistically, you know the way that I like things, the way that I shoot things. But also, I think that I've been fortunate to shoot for the designers that take the photo shoots to that next level. They hire the best stylists in the country. I mean, I've I rarely, rarely work without a stylist. And when I do work without a stylist, I usually tell the designers it's going to be, you know, it's going to be sort of tricky to get published without a really good stylist on board. And they're just, there aren't a lot of great stylists um, available all the time. So we're flying them in from New York and all the big markets just to come in to Texas to help us out on our photo shoots, because there's a need for more, there's not enough, but that extra level of bringing in a stylist takes it makes it publishable instantly.
Matt Jacob:What exactly is a stylist doing for you on set?
Stephen Karlisch:They're creating. They I mean, honestly, I got to give them, I can give them most of the credit for creating, creating the whole vibe of the shot. I mean they're, you know they're working with, so that's not the designer. The designers, the, the what I consider the smarter designers sort of kind of let the stylist sort of take over and don't let. What happens is the designers too connected to what's there, um, and so they're not necessarily looking at the room from an editorial point of view and a stylist will come in and say, you know, know, that's a great chair over there, but it really doesn't work. You know we need to lose it or we need to move this table out, we need to move this rug in.
Stephen Karlisch:They're making these stylistic decisions on product that's in the shot, bringing in floral. Some of them are, you know, sometimes we bring in floral designers that kind of help with the floral, and a lot of times the stylists do the floral too. So there's that extra element of floral, there's the lifestyle element of creating this sort of you know, this scene of reality within a shot. It's that sort of moment where it looks like somebody just walked out of the office. How do you get it to look like that, right, um, a photographer that says they're a stylist can kind of get it semi there and kind of help, but it really really helps to have a real stylist, um, a talented stylist, get in there and just understand what the, what the point of view is for the whole shoot and and sort of create that. You know that moment, which it's like watching a good stylist work is like it's. It's it's a fun thing to see and I wish I wish people saw this more often. But I mean, I stand back in awe like I'll. I will have my camera, I will have a shot lined up in a space and I'll see it for what it is and I'm capturing it just so we can kind of get a rough idea of what the image is going to be and to see it go from the first capture to the finished capture, the final capture. Sometimes it's 20, 30, 40 snaps of the camera. Camera never moves, it's just the elements are moving, things are being added, things are being taken away, the lighting's tweaked a little bit here and there. Um, but going from that first capture to that final one, you're just just kind of blown away and it's, it's the stylists. I mean, the stylists are really dictating a lot of, um, sort of the beauty in the shot and the, the overall. You know composition and I, I, the.
Stephen Karlisch:The stylists that I work with are also I consider them, you know collaborators, art directors Um, we're talking about the composition together. We're talking about the shots. Um, you know, I have a couple of stylists I work with that are not afraid to tell me that's, that's, that's not a good angle, that's not a good shot. Just, you know they're like let's, let's try it. You know let's try this and I'm like, okay, you're right, you're right, you know. So they see things that I don't see and are not afraid to kind of kind of point things out. So you have a lot, a lot of credit to good stylists that are out there and I'm fortunate to get to work with.
Matt Jacob:So do you in your workshops that you do? Is this something you teach as well, you, or do you just teach the photography? Or do you teach working with stylists and designers, and are they part of it?
Stephen Karlisch:we just started to incorporate stylists in our workshop and so that's something that we've done starting this year and and I think it was um, I think it was really, you know, really helpful and I think everybody really enjoyed the collaboration part of working with the stylists.
Stephen Karlisch:There's a lot of people that come to the workshops that do work with stylists and so they're already kind of aware of the pros and, you know, realize like, okay, this is something I really need to push on my clients that aren't hiring stylists, like this is something that they need to do and you know, that's something that we really part of our education is for the photographer to educate their clients on. Yes, you know, if you really want to elevate your, your imagery, you know you've got to have, have, you know, better photography and you need a, you need a stylist. It's all part of the part of the process of getting getting published and, just, you know, having something that you can be proud of at the end of the day, yeah, now with the art side of what you do is do you ever think about kind of the timeless factor of of a lot of these images?
Matt Jacob:it Does that not even play a role, Like, do you want these images to be part of you and you know kind of your legacy, or is it just kind of well, do this job and off it goes and then don't really think about it again?
Stephen Karlisch:I, you know, I definitely feel like there's just because I've been in the business for so long and I've seen people, um, use imagery that I've done 20 years ago that still, really, it still works and they still they'll use it in books and they'll use it for an advertisement and even on an instagram post. And then it just kind of blows me away to to think that you know, gosh, I did that years ago with a 5d mark 1, you know, 12 megapixel camera and, and you know, I didn't really know what I was doing, but it looks great. And there is this timeless sense that you're capturing, you know, a moment for this design team that you know, and I always tell people like, look you just, you never know. You know you may be doing a book on your work in 10, 15 years, um, even if you're a new, even if you're a new firm, um, that could be something that's that's going to be really important to you in the, in the future.
Stephen Karlisch:Um, so, definitely take it seriously and let's, let's make sure these images are going to last, you know. So let's do the best job. We can not rush through it, um, I don't really, you know. So let's do the best job we can, but not rush through it. Um, I don't really, you know, follow the trends too much, I don't. You know, I don't want everything to kind of look like oh, that was, that was shot in 2024. Yeah, I can tell by the filter on it, or you know, that kind of thing which which you see a lot in portrait photography and wedding photography, and, and you know, I kind of of just I stay a little bit more, um more neutral, I guess, so I don't push it too far one way or the other, kind of stay a little bit more in the middle yeah, I think that's really important to.
Matt Jacob:I mean, with digital photography it's a little bit easier to.
Matt Jacob:Maybe, if you own the images and you have the rights, you go back and essentially remove any potential erroneous edits or but you know, seeing as most of the work's done in camera, I think it's really important for us photographers to have one eye on the timeless nature of one's photographs, because you want to be able to look back in 10, 20 years time, whether it's you or someone else, and not think, oh, that was just part of a fad or just part of a trend, in whatever technique they were using at the time.
Matt Jacob:So I think you know, to be able to create a cohesive body of work through over decades is a skill in itself, right? Because you know so many things change all the time, not only yourself and your mindset. You know so many things change all the time, not only yourself and your mindset, but technology. Um, you know this, the, the equipment, the skills, the, everything that at your disposal. It's easy to you know, even look back at images five years ago and they, they look different. Granted, you may be a better photographer, but I think it's super important, as any, any style of photographer to have the ability to create, you know, timeless work or at least a cohesive body of work that, um, you feel like so many photographers now are sort of leaning really heavily on on the retouching side to kind of make, you know, make their statement.
Stephen Karlisch:you know it's, it's, it's their art is through the retouch, um, just cause you can do so much now and it's just it's. It's sort of fascinating to see when, when I started, it was all on film and I've sort of kept that philosophy to this day and I try to get it all in one capture as much as I can. I'm not, you know, trying to layer 15 different images together to composite into this sort of unreal type of image, which is totally possible to do now, unreal type of image which, which is totally possible to do now, um, but I try to kind of stare a little bit clear of that, just because I think, you know, I always try to imagine myself if I had to shoot it on film again. You know how would I do the shot. You know, you don't, we used to just cut, cut the best exposure out of a roll and put it in a sleeve and turn it in, and that was the end of the day, you know, was no retouching.
Stephen Karlisch:So the light stand was in the shot, your light stands in the shot. So it's kind of yeah, you're like, oh, oops, sorry, um, maybe the magazine will crop that out, I don't know is your dog, okay yeah, oh, you can hear, I was like I'm not sure, but uh, yeah, sorry about that no, no worries, there is life.
Stephen Karlisch:There is life behind me.
Matt Jacob:Life behind you. Yeah, I'm sure there is life.
Stephen Karlisch:But he'll come.
Matt Jacob:Okay, cool, yeah, I mean. The other thing I didn't even think about was potentially, you know, being a part of design history, almost, you know, even though designs change obviously over in fashions and trends and just design changes from decade to decade and you having not a responsibility but having a part to play in that is a bit of a weight on the shoulders, or do you even think about things like that?
Stephen Karlisch:I just think that's just part of the job it's, you know, like maybe if you're just getting started out it might feel a little bit more heavy, you know. But I think now you just kind of roll with it and just know that it's part of what we're doing. You know, we're capturing this moment in time and it's changing, always's changing, always changing so what?
Matt Jacob:what is the next you know if you die with a camera in hand? Great, what is the? What does success look like for you, moving forward for someone who's who's achieved? You know a lot of, probably, what you set out to achieve already. Um, what is? How would you define success now?
Stephen Karlisch:It's interesting. I um, you know, I think, for years, I think, as any, any photographer, um, moving forward in your career, you're always trying to climb the mountain right. You're like I want to get the next, I want to get this type of client, I want to get this magazine cover, I want to get this advertising campaign, I want to. You know, I want to travel the world and I want to shoot in Paris. I want to shoot, you know, in LA. And you know, you kind of have these, these moments, um of these, these goals that you set for yourself, um, these stepping stones. You know these, these levels, and you know, and I kind of have reached this point where I just, you know, it doesn't really matter to me sort of where I shoot or what I shoot, it's all part of you know, the things that come to me, come to me for whatever reasons they do, and I appreciate all the work that comes to me. But what I really love now is just the connections I've made with people in the industry through through my workshops and education, that you know they're starting to succeed, like they're there, I feel, like they're my children that are going out in the world and they're they're getting covers of magazines and they're getting these big gigs and they, they send me messages or they call me and, um, and it's just like moment of pride where you, you feel like you've really contributed to the next wave of photographers and the genre.
Stephen Karlisch:And, you know, a little piece of me is moving along. You know, with them I taught them something, a little technique or they got something from me that has kind of helped them get to the next level. And so I think, building in the community that I've already established, um, my wife and I have created, you know our little community that I hope to grow and um, you know, just keep teaching and pushing people forward and keep shooting. And you know, I'm not not the educator that just educates. I, you know, I shoot, then I step away and I educate and I shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. So you know, I'm still a working photographer, um slash educator, but I do feel, you know, the next five, 10 years of my career I'm really going to focus a lot harder on um, just working within my community and just trying to build people up, you know, help them.
Matt Jacob:Yeah, there's a lot of fulfillment to be had in that, isn't there? What about other niches? Do you explore more in your fine art stuff and portraits and things? Yeah.
Stephen Karlisch:I really, I think I'll explore fine art. I think that's sort of the logical thing. I think I'll explore fine art. I think that's that's sort of the logical thing. I've, you know, a lot of a lot of um energy has sort of been been pushed into. You know, things like video and, uh, you know, producing things that way and and I just realized I'm like I'm not a videographer and you know, I don't like that side of the business. Um, so difficult, it's a lot. I, I, I really feel like you have to have a video mindset. You have to really understand um, how, how to translate a story in motion and it just looks and feels totally different than than stills. And the people that can do both, I'm like I I bow to them and I'm like you guys are super talented Um, but my brain I can't, I can't do both Like it's. I've tried and it doesn't work. So, hopefully, the fine art side to me it makes a lot more sense.
Stephen Karlisch:Um, I love travel, I love, I love to see new things and, um, you know, I just appreciate seeing things printed on walls. Um, we don't do enough of that, you know, as interior photographers, I think it's, we sort of live in this. You know digital world where it's, it's on digital online or it's on instagram or it's on a website, and you know you rarely, rarely see it in print, you know so I think the same can be said across the whole industry, and yeah I think it's, you know, with the, you know the re-advent of film and the, the new trend.
Matt Jacob:Well, I guess, hopefully it's not a trend, but the, the explosion of film photography. I think people are again, I think people are becoming more and more interested in prints and just the kind of the physical nature of photography. Again, hopefully, um. But yeah, I totally agree. I think we just, unfortunately, I think social media has now moved so far the other way, outside of photography, right is you know?
Matt Jacob:there is no photography social media anymore like instagram was 10 15 years ago no I'm hoping that that has helped us try and search for other means to to express photography, and, but you know, the digital space will always be there. I guess it's. But yeah, I love. I just printed a new print last week and I forgot how enjoyable it is and how fulfilling it is and how good the photos look right on a, on a piece of paper in front of your eyes, rather than just on a, you know, tiny little screen.
Stephen Karlisch:So, yeah, you don't, you don't appreciate it until you see it, see it on print. And uh, are you? Um, do you know? Do you know the photographer Simon Devitt? He's a he's an architectural photographer in New Zealand. He's he's a friend of mine and one of his, one of his favorite lines is his photographs don't grow up dreaming of being pixels.
Stephen Karlisch:So he's, he's he's very he's very into promoting books and print and, you know, creating a legacy through through printing your images and you know, and that that printing your images and, um, you know, and that that is something that I need to, I need to be more aware of myself. I mean, we all, we all do, but, um, you know, printing is, uh is key for the future. I, I just feel like there's this. I mean, we could talk about this forever, but the whole, we all just have millions of images on hard drives just sitting there, you know.
Matt Jacob:Well, let's talk about it for a little bit longer, because I'm fascinated by it. But I think one thing that people don't realize for people who don't print too much or haven't printed prints or printed a book, it's a whole new skill set altogether. It's to be able to do a photo book and to sequence and to tell a story and to, you know, aesthetically make it fit and flow and, um, be something that's representative of what you want to say in and your voice. It's, it's, you know, there's a reason why not many people do it. It's extremely, extremely difficult. And same can be said for just an individual print, right it? It looks so different on on a wall or, you know, just on paper in front of you. There's, there's a whole different way of editing and and curating and and printing, um, you know, in terms of color theory and what paper you use and how you're going to display it. It's that's the real enjoyment behind it and I think people seem to forget that.
Matt Jacob:You know, like, like your friend simon devitt said, it's you know, for the the photographs want to be eventually, um, you know, tangible, real things right they don't want to be just kept on your hard drive. Kept on the screen, it almost feels like they're unfinished yeah, um yeah, I think that's part of the beauty of photography as well is having that final product actually in front of you, whether it's a book or print or magazine or whatever it might be.
Stephen Karlisch:Yeah, I think there are so many ways we can print now that people aren't aware of and it's not expensive, it's you know, it's not, it's not expensive, it's it's you know, it's easy. Um, but I feel like there's a lack of, definitely a lack of education out there. There's, there's a there's a whole generation of photographers that exist now that probably don't. They've never printed one thing you know. So, hopefully, maybe I don't know let's get the word out let's get the word, well let's.
Matt Jacob:Let's get everyone to your workshops and hopefully you'll, you'll you'll yeah, we're teaching them.
Stephen Karlisch:Yeah, printing, printing might become a part of that. So you know, at least exposing people to printing in some certain, in some ways. So it's, it's definitely an area that needs to be talked about more, for sure and I talked to some of my mentees about.
Matt Jacob:Just, you know, what are you doing this for? What is the well? More importantly, what's the end result? You know, is it just so you can post on social media? And if it is, you really have to question why you're doing photography in the first place. So I think you know there's one thing like there's the commercial world, obviously. There's one thing like there's a commercial world, obviously. And then there's more the personal passion, uh, hobby type area of photography where you just want to do that because you absolutely love it, whatever it is about it. But there has to be the part of loving. It is not part of loving. Photography is not posting on social media, right, there's that's loving social media and getting validation for it.
Matt Jacob:So yeah I think people really need to kind of look inward in in that respect and figure out what am I, what do I want? If the end result is getting published in a magazine, fantastic, like, that's great. You at least have this tangible outlet. Um, you know, a lot of people don't believe that art is art until it's actually viewed right, or actually, you know, physically, in the physical world. So I don't know. It's um, I think we yeah, we have this whole generation now who don't, who just have no idea about that, and I think that's down to the likes of you to, uh, to educate um and getting it out there.
Stephen Karlisch:I think also, what people don't, you know, talk about enough when it comes to printing is how much time and uh energy it takes to do to do the printing side. And unfortunately we move too quickly Now. We move from, you know, the shoot to the delivery, to the shoot delivery. You know this cycle of um of work that we do I think all of us in the hunt for the next job and the new client um, that we don't. I think printing is almost like a selfish endeavor where we're taking our own time to do it and um, it's for us mainly. So I just think a lot of people don't. They just don't do it because just just at the time and energy that it takes but you know, what you get out of it in the long run is is hard to. It's really hard to explain, you know, until you do it.
Stephen Karlisch:And I remember when I was, you know, a photography student in the nineties. Um, there are photographers that that I'd read about or hear about, that you know would go. They nineties, um, there are photographers that that I'd read about or hear about, that you know would go. They would shoot, shoot, shoot all over the world and they would leave their film unprocessed until like November of each year, and then they would spend November and December, and, you know, january, printing and developing their, their work. So they would, they would spend a portion of the year shooting, never looking at it, putting it, you know, in the freezer, and then they would wait and then they would just do the next the printing part of it would be a whole season for them. You know they're like they're not photographing this part of the year. They're they're processing, they're printing, they're looking at their work and I mean, that's that just sounds, sounds really cool it sounds amazing right, I think there's a beauty in that process.
Matt Jacob:Right, it's, it's, yeah, but you're, you're, you're absolutely correct in saying, you know, even even going to a lab and developing your own photos, right, it's, it's just too long for it's just too time consuming for people. It's not, it's not fast enough, it doesn't give you the dopamine hit straight away. And I think being able to have those moments with yourself, whether it's an hour or 10 minutes or a day, I think it's is highly incorrigible for people. It's something we, we used to do all the time before, before, you know, devices came along and, um, you know, it's like reading a book. It's, it's, it's this, this. You're treating yourself, you're being kind to yourself, and I think there's there's real value in that.
Matt Jacob:Um, whether it's photography or something else, but with photography, uh, you know, just sitting down and and printing your own stuff, or being with prints, or reading, or going through a photo book I, you know, promote photo books all the time. I just think they're so important, a for inspiration, but just for people to slow down a little bit and actually study photographs rather than just scroll through them, I just think, um, that there's so much value to that and I think we're we're missing. We're missing so much because of the, because of just the way we we want to view things and, exactly like you said, the speed at which we want to move through life and through our daily rituals, right. So?
Matt Jacob:yeah even conversations like this. It's nice to just. It's why I love podcasting. I can sit across from another human being for an hour and and not have a phone near me. Yeah, granted we're. We're doing this online, but you know we're not getting distracted by other things. It's just a, you know, flow, state conversations and the same can be, said, for photography. So I think it's highly encourageable.
Stephen Karlisch:Yeah and uh, yeah, I hope to see more. I mean, maybe with this you know resurgence of, you know film and and people shooting more film, that you know even even people printing four by sixes or you know contact beats um. You know that, that you know maybe that leads to something with, you know a new generation of photographers, but you just don't. You don't realize you learn more about yourself as a photographer when you see something printed too. And that's the next.
Stephen Karlisch:You know, yes, there is there's a lot to learn about how to make something look good in a print, but it's actually looking at an image you did on paper in front of you and seeing the flaws or seeing what worked, what didn't work. It just teaches you so much more about your process as a photographer and how it translates into a print. And you know I think digitally it's so easy. Think digitally it's so easy like and and for what I do. Let's say, I do 20 images in a day for a client and you know I retouched 20 images and it's. I look at it and then it's gone right and it's. It's online or it's in a web gallery somewhere.
Stephen Karlisch:You know it's like, I look at it and you know on my computer and a couple different programs, and then I look at it in a web browser and it's like, and then it's, it's gone. You know, that's it. I don't really hold it and see it you know.
Stephen Karlisch:So there was, there was a point in time in my, in my early days, when, you know, I started, you know, in the film generation. So the first seven or eight years as a photographer was all film and when I shot interiors, I would, I would do eight by 10 prints of every image that I shot. So, you know, process the film and that's how I approved it. I would do eight by 10 prints and I would give the clients a set of eight by 10 prints. Here's your set of images, you know, and it's I don't know. It was just that's kind of how we did it and, uh, you know, maybe I should do that again.
Matt Jacob:I don't know well, we still want to move with the times rather than just get stuck in our ways. But I'm sure, I'm sure you're going to be at the forefront of that PR project, certainly in the interior.
Stephen Karlisch:I think people would react positively to it.
Matt Jacob:I think they would, and especially books, you know people would really react well to that. So, yeah, yeah, I wish you all the best for that project. Good luck, but thank you so much for joining me today, steve. It's been a pleasure to be educated by you. It's scary how little I know about what you do. So thanks for the insights and I'm sure the audience appreciated it it.
Stephen Karlisch:Well, it's been great talking to you and uh, yeah, anytime you want to know a little bit more about interiors, just yeah, send me a message and uh one of these days maybe I'll I'll put some videos on youtube or something.
Stephen Karlisch:But uh, I see more and more people that are that are putting things out on the, you know, interior side of photography. So, uh, there's definitely more to see now. It's kind of was a very closed off sort of niche genre for a long time, but now people are starting to get things out there. But it's fun, I think. Any kind of photography that you do, whether it's portraits or product or anything, I think you can learn a lot If you can light an interior or create the mood of light in an interior. That, um, you can, you can create and control consistently. That it's improve all your, all your photography. You see things in a whole new way, I think.
Matt Jacob:Yeah, absolutely, today's, you know, digital world is that we can. We can, you know, teach people easier, we can give exposure to things more easily and we can, you know, give people our voice more easily. So hopefully I'll see you on youtube um educating so many more people and but until then, yeah, thanks so much for for taking part in this conversation and I can figure the video out. Yeah, yeah, no headphones just, oh my god all right take care of yourself. Thank you all, right, my nice to meet you.
Stephen Karlisch:Cheers, bye.
